Morgan BellTall Poppy Syndrome
November 17th 2008 11:03
It is thought to be a uniquely Australian phenomenon, to resent the success of others and attempt to cut them down to size, we call it Tall Poppy Syndrome, and it resonates through every facet of Australian culture.
When Australian exports make it big overseas in the fields academia or entertainment, they often find it difficult to return home due to the huge amount of criticism levelled at them. Our ex-pats like Germaine Greer, Robert Hughes, Paul Hogan, Mel Gibson, Clive James, and Kylie Minogue, seem to move away and never look back - nice place to visit, but hard place to live if you are doing well.
Australians like to deflate the pretensions of those they perceive to be "flaunting" their success. We like to pull down those who attempt to distinguish themselves by ridiculing them. It's the Australian way, and if you dont like it get out! Then we wonder why theres a "brain drain" and a "cultural cringe".
But what does an actual Poppy have to say on the topic?
Lets ask Poppy King and Poppy Montgomery what they think of home:
Australian lipstick queen Poppy King achieved fast and massive success with her cosmetics business Poppy Industries. Ms King was once named one of Time magazine's Global Leaders of the New Millennium, and Young Australian of the Year. She started her first company at 18, and by the time she was 23 her Poppy Industries had a $6.5 million turnover.
"I love Australia. It's an amazing place. I miss it terribly. I don't think I would have had the same chances in any other country."
"I've tried so hard to dispel myths about Australia, about it being a backwater,"
Ms King's business eventually failed.
"I got more praise than I deserved in the beginning and more criticism than I deserved in the end," she said
"But saying I suffered from the tall poppy syndrome doesn't acknowledge my complicity in becoming so high-profile. I put myself in that position."
As an Australian Poppy King knows that Tall Poppy Syndrome is all part of the package and readily holds herself partly accountable for the criticism she suffered for daring to go large and succeed on a world scale.
Poppy Montgomery is another great Australian export. Ms Montgomery has a main role in the USA television drama Without A Trace, opposite fellow ex-pat Anthony LaPaglia. Ms Montgomery left Australia at 18 for Hollywood, working for almost a decade in film and television before landing the career-defining role of FBI agent Samantha Spade.
"I used to run around in Australia barefoot - bugs, snakes, I didn't give a shit. And all my little brothers and sisters are like that." Poppy once remarked
"They're so tough. I went to visit my mum recently and she said, 'Come down and see the rain forest. It's gorgeous.' I looked in and there was this tangle of bush and dark and my Mum was just strolling through. I said, 'There's spiders, Mum.' And she was like, 'What happened to you in America? You used to be so ballsy.' "
Poppy says of her family "They're all in Sydney. Every time I go home they're mortified by my newly acquired American accent."
Poppy recently gave birth to her first child (Jackson) with partner Adam Kaufman.
"We wouldn't consider moving back because Adam's American and my work is here. We've talked a lot about getting a place in Sydney so we can go back and forth more. I want Jackson to know where I grew up and where I'm from and I want him to be near his grandparents. It's just such a long flight."
When Australian exports make it big overseas in the fields academia or entertainment, they often find it difficult to return home due to the huge amount of criticism levelled at them. Our ex-pats like Germaine Greer, Robert Hughes, Paul Hogan, Mel Gibson, Clive James, and Kylie Minogue, seem to move away and never look back - nice place to visit, but hard place to live if you are doing well.
Australians like to deflate the pretensions of those they perceive to be "flaunting" their success. We like to pull down those who attempt to distinguish themselves by ridiculing them. It's the Australian way, and if you dont like it get out! Then we wonder why theres a "brain drain" and a "cultural cringe".
But what does an actual Poppy have to say on the topic?
Lets ask Poppy King and Poppy Montgomery what they think of home:
Australian lipstick queen Poppy King achieved fast and massive success with her cosmetics business Poppy Industries. Ms King was once named one of Time magazine's Global Leaders of the New Millennium, and Young Australian of the Year. She started her first company at 18, and by the time she was 23 her Poppy Industries had a $6.5 million turnover.
"I love Australia. It's an amazing place. I miss it terribly. I don't think I would have had the same chances in any other country."
"I've tried so hard to dispel myths about Australia, about it being a backwater,"
Ms King's business eventually failed.
"I got more praise than I deserved in the beginning and more criticism than I deserved in the end," she said
"But saying I suffered from the tall poppy syndrome doesn't acknowledge my complicity in becoming so high-profile. I put myself in that position."
As an Australian Poppy King knows that Tall Poppy Syndrome is all part of the package and readily holds herself partly accountable for the criticism she suffered for daring to go large and succeed on a world scale.
Poppy Montgomery is another great Australian export. Ms Montgomery has a main role in the USA television drama Without A Trace, opposite fellow ex-pat Anthony LaPaglia. Ms Montgomery left Australia at 18 for Hollywood, working for almost a decade in film and television before landing the career-defining role of FBI agent Samantha Spade.
"I used to run around in Australia barefoot - bugs, snakes, I didn't give a shit. And all my little brothers and sisters are like that." Poppy once remarked
"They're so tough. I went to visit my mum recently and she said, 'Come down and see the rain forest. It's gorgeous.' I looked in and there was this tangle of bush and dark and my Mum was just strolling through. I said, 'There's spiders, Mum.' And she was like, 'What happened to you in America? You used to be so ballsy.' "
Poppy says of her family "They're all in Sydney. Every time I go home they're mortified by my newly acquired American accent."
Poppy recently gave birth to her first child (Jackson) with partner Adam Kaufman.
"We wouldn't consider moving back because Adam's American and my work is here. We've talked a lot about getting a place in Sydney so we can go back and forth more. I want Jackson to know where I grew up and where I'm from and I want him to be near his grandparents. It's just such a long flight."
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Comment by Janet Collins
The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
I really have to challenge the notion that the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" is an Australian one and an Australian one only.
I know it is often said but I often respond "but don't Porches get scratched overseas?". I know Australians are pretty brutal but so are many other nations.
People generally seem to worship people until they become too successful and then jealousy kicks in and so does the tendency to pull them apart. Think of Madonna recently.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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maybe we need to hear for some British and American Orblers to see if they have a similar mind-set there?
my impression of the USA is that they tend to revere and/or idolise the rich and famous . . . but it would be interesting to hear from some people that actually live there to confirm or deny . . .
in the UK the working class seem to resent old money or aristocracy (ie: people that inherit their wealth) but they seem to respect their actors, and singers, and writers more . . . i think thats why so many Aussie ex-pats like it there!
Comment by Janet Collins
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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it is interesting what you say about Madonna though, how much she has been criticised lately, i wonder how much of it is to do with her age and her "ball-buster" persona? in her case she is quite specifically flaunting her sexuality rather than just her success
i wonder if an act like Miley Cyrus would ever be able to take off successfully in Australia and have local support?
im open to suggestions . . .
Comment by RubySoho
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She says "high profile" like its a bad thing. I remember the Poppy King craze. i also remember being very jealous that a person my age could be so successful so young. haha. Do you know why her business failed in the end? Just a fad?
Comment by Janet Collins
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Morgan - pardon my ignorance but who is Miley Cyrus?
Comment by Morgan Bell
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from my understanding all the major cosmetics companies started stocking matt lipstick after they saw how successful she was . . . i think she just got swamped by other similar products
Ugly disputes about market direction, aired in public, strained her relationship with the Frieds to breaking point and in August 1998, when their feud proved irreconcilable, the couple resigned as directors and the company went bust.
With creditors' debts of $1.3 million, Poppy Industries was placed in receivership, leaving 40 staff out of work and the Frieds out of pocket to the tune of $3.5 million.
that was from the same article i took the quotes from
Comment by Morgan Bell
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Miley Cyrus (daughter of Billy Ray Cyrus) is the latest "it" girl in american teen pop, shes a major sensation, the current day Britney Spears if you will, she was originally Hannah Montana on the Disney channel
heres her wiki page: Really Long Link
shes insanely popular with teens, and i think shes taking over the world, shes released a couple of Top 10 hits here in Australia in recent months "See You Again" and "7 Things" . . . you might have heard them on the radio?
Comment by Janet Collins
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Comment by alt_ed
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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haha they are some Australian ladies by the name of Poppy . . . you never know anyone!
Comment by alt_ed
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Comment by Jason King
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I hate the tall poppy syndrome!! I refuse to support it - I remember it even went back to school - anyone who dared to stand out was harassed.
I really don't think it happens much in the US unless a) the celeb pisses off the media or b) the celeb starts going off the wire and correct moral expectations of general Amercians - ie: Britney and the undygate drama - not very "nice girl" Amercian so she gets the beat down. I also think the UK is very similar to us and unless an excuse is their to bring them down then everyone loves them. In Madonna's case in the UK - maybe this is because she isn't actually British.
Who knows but tall poppy syndrome sux!! And besides I intend to be famous so you better all love me forever!!!
Comment by Norm
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It's an ex-pat trick question.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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ill love you when youre rich and famous!
ive noticed myself exhibiting a bit of tall poppy syndrome towards the new movie Australia, i cant explain it, but the more i see it being promoted the more i am determined not to like it . . . its strange feeling, maybe its because i feel that Nicole Kidman doesnt really represent Australians, and i think pretending we have magical lagoons that increase fertility and produce miracle babies for the purposes of boosting tourism just makes us all looks that little bit more stupid?
i just have an uncontrollable urge to CUT IT DOWN!
<insert evil laugh here>
haha
hi Norm,
is this a riddle?
are you living at a foreign embassy?
Comment by Mr Nice Guy
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Mind you - better to be born lucky than rich - both would be nice though.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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oh me too!
i could have been a business tycoon, or an A-list actress, but i just said NO, no thankyou world, i dont want my fellow Australians to feel uncomfortable around my success!
Comment by Michaelie
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Mich
BTW, Interesting about Poppy Montgomery's take on how she has changed.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i think Australians are tough, and we expect everyone else to toughen up and take it like a man!
i get sent a facebook group named "Harden The Fuck Up" or "Build A Bridge And Get Over It" every other day . . . as a cultural identity we seem to pride ourselves on being nasty little mofos haha
im not familiar with John So, but i get what you are saying about it being popularity reather than success!
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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David Paris is not a Poppy . . . besides i think hes being interviwed on JoyFM isnt he?
Comment by Jason King
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The original posters for Australia got recalled because some doofus forgot to put Tazzy on there! lol
I am already dubbing this film to make my top 5 films.
I worship Baz!!!!!!
Comment by Morgan Bell
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bloody Baz and his bloody success! haha
dont you think its about time he came our of the closet?
poor little Tazzy, always forgotten lol
im sure ill be first in line to see the flick once it gets transported over to the forgotten isle!
Comment by Jason King
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I LOVE BAZ - and yes he should come out and be my sugar daddy!! I worked with him on R&J and I swear he was!
Comment by May
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Tall poppy syndrome is bad if the person you're cutting down doesn't deserve that negativity. It's just doing it for the sake of doing it.
BTW, I love Baz Luhrman...but i'm not sold on the Australia movie concept. I can't get past the dodginess of naming your movie after a country...people jump to conclusions!
Comment by Cheryl J
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It seems to be the same reason people like to see celebrities mess up or have cellulite or have breakdowns. Well I'm guessing people like it because it seems to sell magazines. I hate that crap.
The Poppys are both interesting examples. Although I don't think either of them are victims of the syndrome. Poppy King made some bad business decisions and that's why her business folded and Poppy Montgomery is still at the status of 'good on her'. If she gets as big as Nicole Kidman the tide will turn.
Jason, they've closed off a major road for the bloody "Australia" premiere from 11pm last night until 5am tomorrow morning.! What a load of bollocks for a movie. I'm with Morgan, I'm determined to hate this film. I doubt it will be hard, the trailer looks AWFUL! Whoops there goes another poppy...pass the opium pipe!
Comment by Morgan Bell
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well now i know who to get you for xmas . . .
hi May,
i found the following trivia for you:
hi Cheryl,
i heard Julia Gillard fairly recently (in reference to education) describe Australia as an egalitarian society . . . i guess it is instinctive for us to ensure everyone is exactly equal, and to abolish priveledge and class . . . if you grow too big for your boots and start over-shadowing others you will get the chop! haha
Comment by Jason King
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Cheryl - don't be mean. You must be open minded now about films. Don't be a hater - it is th biggest Australian film release of all time - allow them the one street!! lol
And I love the trailer!! You hated Titanic and Gone with the Wind didn't you? Combine those two films, set it in the dessert of Australia and voila!!
Comment by James Rickard
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I'm from the States and he's my take--you're never rich unless you're rich enough to hire someone to wipe your butt. (I've been wanting to say that for 15 years!)
As an old man is West Virginia told me, "Purty is as purty does!"
Comment by Patricia
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does this mean you are cheating on Gus Van Sant?
hi James,
oh good an American we can pick the brains of!
have you ever heard of or experienced Tall Poppy Syndrome in the States?
when your entertainers and academics do well overseas is there a backlash against them?
hi Patricia,
oh is it worse in New Zealand?
being Australian, i of course arrogantly consider your nation to be a part of ours! haha
i think we have some similar cultures . . .
Comment by Two Guys Sports
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I also did not know there were actually two people named Poppy!
I am willing to bet at least 80% of Americans did not know Poppy Montgomery was Australian. (Yes, I am one of them. Just never realized.)
I don't really think we have it a lot here, but have a reason behind saying that. We are so bombarded with celebrity crap everywhere we go. On TV, magazines, newspapers, things that like to call themselves newspapers, just everywhere. Paris Hilton wets herself a tiny bit while sneezing - we not only know about it within hours, we see pictures of the panties she had to take off after doing it. . . which of course leads to those other pics with no undies.
With so much coverage you get most of the population hanging on every word and picture, and just waiting for the next one - while the rest are tired of it all. together they see each and every reason that they should be cut down and don't have to go searching for reasons. Mainly because if you watch someone nonstop they are going to make mistakes. mistakes which are amplified many times because they are watched nonstop.
Gene
Comment by colocountry
Australian's still harbour an apologetically penal mindset that has not yet been diluted by a cavalcade of immigrants over 150 years. Its my guess that we will cling to our sporting machismo for a century or two before we realise that this hot, dry, inhospitable interior of ours is a blessed place, unique in all the earth. Some recent tall poppies needed pruning though and I would gladly have provided the sequitours... or does that mean that the preceding comments aren't objective? Doh!!
Col
Comment by Morgan Bell
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well that was certainly a graphic mental image you painted for us there of Paris Hilton! haha
we have heaps of sneaky Australians walking in your midst, we can talk and dress like you - the Australian invasion will soon saturate all of Hollywood!
MUHAHAHAaaa
*throws head back in evil laugh*
hi Col,
pruning the poppies hey? lol
off with their heads!
perhaps our convict origins do have something to do with our funny attitudes towards people who want to leave us and better themselves - perhaps we are suffering from a national case of low self-esteem?
Comment by Janet Collins
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It is really what all the celebrity mags make their money on.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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if you write a post on it, do come back and share the link, i would be very interested in the results of your research!
Comment by Wilson Pon
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Comment by Butterfly7
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All i can say about Poppy Montgomery is ....i like.....i like alot hahaha
As for the film Australia.....we may have to go see it.....one of these days......when it finally gets to tassie lol
Cheers BF7
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i think we usually get a couple of the top spots in the "worlds most live-able cities" lists!
im sure we would all love to have you if you ever pack your bags and make the big move!
hi James,
man, i really need to get around to posting a "how to" guide on morphine and derivatives . . . here in Tasmania i am surrounded by poppy fields, and i really think that starting my own drug lab would be the ultimate feather in my white-trash cap!
hi Butterfly,
Poppy Montgomery is a very beautiful lady alright!
im actually kind of excited to see the movie Australia, despite all my moaning and groaning about the excessive amount of publicity its getting . . . i think it will be quite the spectacle!
Comment by James Rickard
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Tasmania??? Have you see the Warner Bros. Tasmanian Devil on say Bugs Bunny?????? I was SO let down to find out they're not like that!!!
Comment by Morgan Bell
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oh yes i know the cartoon well!
they are a bit different in real life, not as much spinning around, but they have their own unique charm!
they are the type of critters that have a bark (or gutteral growl) much worse than their bight!
they are endangered now, largely due to a mysterious facial cancer (possibly from chemical spraying)
cute little buggers!
Comment by Morgan Bell
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Comment by Postmodern Critic
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Tall Poppy Syndrome is found in Australia, New Zealand and Canada, and something very similar by the name of Jante's Law applies in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland.
From here:
The term “Janteloven" meaning "Jante’s Laws" has its origins in "En flygtning krysser sitt spor" ('A refugee crosses his tracks') a novel written by the Dano-Norwegian author Aksel Sandemose. The book is about the negativities of Scandinavian small town mentality. Janteloven as a concept is well-known within Scandinavia but not so well-known outside the region where it is often represented under a different name.
Aksel Sandemose created the ten commandments of Janteloven, which, are: 1. You shall not think that you are special. 2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us. 3. You shall not think that you are smarter than us. 4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us. 5. You shall not think that you know more than us. 6. You shall not think that you are more important than us. 7. You shall not think that you are good at anything. 8. You shall not laugh at us. 9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you. 10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything.
It is because I don't regard Tall Poppy Syndrome as problematic as I used to that I want to move out of Australia, at least for a while. I don't find myself striving for excellence all the time anymore, and it doth suck. Only problem is, I wanted to move to Denmark! lol
I'm interested in seeing Australia, and will keep an open mind about it, despite its attempt to be oh-so-iconic. I'm sure it'll be interesting, though.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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that was definately worth the wait!
so much great info!
thanks for your contribution!
isnt is strange how Tall Poppy Syndrome can put a damper on people striving for excellence, we can kind of get wrapped up in a blanket of mediocrity haha
make sure you come back to Orble soon!