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Deep Pencil - The blog of Morgan Bell (author of Sniggerless Boundulations)

 

You have entered the random thinking space of Morgan Bell. These are my musings, things about my life written either off the top of my head or in a completely calculated fashion. This is where i flesh out writing ideas and discuss my life and my opinions.

Author bio: Bell’s short story "It Had To Be Done" was first published in the Newcastle Writers Group Anthology 2012, and her short story "Midnight Daisy" was published by YWCA Newcastle in 2013 as part of the She: True Stories project, with live readings on ABC 1233 in February 2014 and Newcastle Writers Festival in April 2014. Bell contributed a short story to the 2014 Hunter Speculative Fiction Anthology called “The Switch” which is based on Germanic folklore. It is due to be published in May 2014 alongside award-winning authors such as Margo Lanagan and Kirstyn McDermott. In March 2014 Bell's short story "Don't Pay The Ferryman", an anti-travel piece, was shortlisted for the Hunter Writer's Centre Travel Writing Prize 2014. Sniggerless Boundulations is Bell's debut collection of fifteen stories, touching on themes fear, time, aging, anxiety, and jealousy. The work is experimental in form and length, including flash fiction and vignettes, and is an examination of the horrors of life.

what has Feminism done for you lately?

July 23rd 2008 17:23
Here in the western world the rights and freedoms that women enjoy today were fought for by many courageous Feminists.

In the 1800's when a woman married she lost any right to control property that was hers prior to the marriage. She had no right to acquire any property during marriage. She could not make contracts, keep or control her own wages or any rents, transfer property, sell property or bring any lawsuit. She could also not make a will.

Campaigning for Women's Rights has been labelled "Feminism" since the 1890's.

One of the main causes that the earliest Feminists were concerned with was the call to allow women to be able to vote. This movement was called "Suffrage" and many of the "Suffragettes" who led protests against the government were jailed and abused in the process of winning the right to vote.

Australian women got the vote in 1902. Some women (mature-aged home owners) were allowed to vote in England in 1918, and finally all women got the vote in 1928. In the USA women got the vote in 1919.

English women could not study at Oxford University until 1920. In the USA, Yale University did not go co-ed for undergraduates until 1969.

Women did not serve in the Army in the USA until World War II. In Australia women were not integrated into the regular Army until the 1970s.

Men could legally rape their wives up until the 1980s in the USA and the laws for Marital Rape did not change in England until 1991.





Feminism is not a dirty word and is still very relevant today.

If you are a woman who has enjoyed any of the following freedoms you have the Feminists that came before you to thank:

- equal access to education
- equal pay for equal work
- access to contraception
- reproductive rights
- the right to vote
- the right to own land and assets
- the right to have banking and credit accounts in your own name
- the right to enter a public bar
- the right to travel or socialise without a chaperone

Its not all about free-love, hairy legs and bra-burning!







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Comments
119 Comments. [ Add A Comment ]

Comment by S.L.

July 23rd 2008 17:49
Like so many good-sounding liberal ideas, Morgan, "feminism" has turned into a tragedy and a disaster. I have no problem with women in the workforce, nor with them getting equal pay. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about women voting. The country (all of them) survived before women got the right to vote, and as Ann Coulter points out, everything has gone downhill ever since. More female voters tend to bring forth more liberalism and that is the destroyer of cultures no matter how you slice it. "Reproductive rights" is just a feminist name for the murder of inconvenient children. Changing the name on a crime against humanity doesn't make it right.

There were all female schools dating back further than the referrence you made to Yale, that produced women doctors, lawyers and engineers (among other high-dollar careers.) Women have taken over so many of the previously male-only schools and jobs and clubs, but let an all female establishment (of any kind) allow males and the weeping & sobbing are disgusting.

Today's feminist isn't after equality, Morgan. She wants ownership and absolute rule. That does nothing for me, for you, or for any other woman.

Comment by alt_ed

July 23rd 2008 22:35
I'm with you there S.L.- Giving you the right to vote certainly wasn't your governments best idea... as you point out, things have without a doubt gone done hill!

As for Morgan, I'm positive she has always cast a wise vote, last time for the Greens i believe (I think they're a pro-choice party).

Great post Morgan!

Comment by Queenie

July 24th 2008 00:00
I agree with everything you say, Morgan. It's a shame so many women knock feminism but are happy to take advantage of the choices feminism have brought women.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 00:40
Morgan, did you sneak into my room and read my computer files when I was out? I swear I have been preparing a very similar post.
But this is great, thank you, thank you, thank you!

Bradish, honestly I can't believe you just wrote that. You don't know how you feel about women voting? The right to vote is the cornerstone of any liberal democracy. If you don't have the right to vote, you don't have anything. And have you stopped to think why more women vote liberal? Could it be because conservatism favours men?

And if you don't think women deserve to have political opinions then why do you feel the need to pollute the internet with yours?



Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 01:38
Ruby, conservatism deals with common sense, not soft, gooey, squishy emotions for which women are famous. If you were capable of using either common sense or logic, maybe you'd understand.

Comment by Mrs M

July 24th 2008 02:02
Hi Morgan,

I'm all for feminism. The sort of feminism that allows choice. And I take my hat off to all those women before me who have tried to make my life as a woman just a little bit easier.

But equal pay for equal work still doesn't take place today. Sure, it is illegal to discriminate but still to this day women earn 85c to every $1 a man earns.

I've added two links to newspaper articles.

McKews equal pay plea

Women don't work enough: expert

SL,

Today's feminist isn't after equality, Morgan. She wants ownership and absolute rule.
Do you really believe that or are you just being subversive?

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 02:18
I know several "feminists" Mrs. M. Every single one of them thinks the world (and the male population) owe them a living. They don't want equality, they want supremecy. I find that sickening.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 02:20
not soft, gooey, squishy emotions for which women are famous


wtf??

you are a disgrace to your gender. I am ashamed of you.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 02:22
And I am ashamed of you, Ruby. You are the very image of everything dispicable about females.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 02:36
Thanks. SL. I don't believe anyone has ever paid me a greater compliment.

For when such a finely conditioned traitor to her own sex such yourself takes issue with me, I know I must be on the right track.

Deal with it, honey, us feminists are not going anywhere.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 02:52
Of course you're not, Ruby. You won't ever get anywhere... unless killing your own children takes you someplace you'd like to be.

Sorry to waste so much of your time, Morgan. Ruby isn't worth any more of mine. Deal with her if you like.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 03:00
hi S.L.
well im a Feminist and i respect other Feminists
if women prefer to live independantly they should be able to
women should be able to say if and when they have sex or get married or have children
they should be able to vote in the people that make the laws to ensure these choices
i think Feminism is just questioning inequalities in the system and lobbying for women to be treated as people and not as property
Feminism is what allows us all to voice our opinions without fear of being arrested or beaten or oestracised or financially disadvantaged

Comment by alt_ed

July 24th 2008 03:03
You know what Ruby, sometimes I think S.L. is actually the robot creation of some kinky misogynistic republican—I mean, how on earth could one frail elderly woman be so pedantically inspired by urban myth emails.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 03:04
Ruby isn't worth any more of mine. Deal with her if you like.


Great. Good news for a change.

Does that mean you won't be annoying me here anymore?

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 03:10
i think Feminism is just questioning inequalities in the system and lobbying for women to be treated as people and not as property
Feminism is what allows us all to voice our opinions without fear of being arrested or beaten or oestracised or financially disadvantaged


That's why I love you Morgan.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 03:13
Sorry to disagree with you Morgan, but you're wrong. feminism didn't give you anything. It took away so much of your feminine qualities... Ladies aren't respected anymore. Women are considered pieces of meat because they have no mistique left. They can behave as badly as men and with as few consequences. VD was once a mostly male disease (all of the various vd's) and now women die from them by the thousands. Feminism has really made you free, hasn't it? Now you can get AIDS and die because abortion and Birth Control have enabled you to screw indescriminately. Lucky you!!! Isn't living in the "Age of the Alley Cat" wonderful? If you get pregnant, feminism says you can kill your children. And if you get AIDS from being promiscuous, you can die just like a man.
Yep, Morgan and Ruby and alt-ed, this is truly a wonderful time, all brought to you by feminism.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 03:25
SL,

You have no idea what feminism is. Feminists of the past devoted their lives so that we can come out of the shadows and out of the kitchens and be treated as independent human beings.

You know, I can handle misogyny when it comes from a man but when a woman is spouting this drivel it is intolerable.

Do you know you sound EXACTLY like the crazy radical Muslim preachers who go on and on about women being pieces of meat? Isn't funny SL, that you are EXACTLY like the people and the religion that you say you hate?

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 03:44
Tell you what, Ruby... Why don't you whore around awhile (because feminism and birth control allow it) and get pregnant (because birth control doesn't always work) and then kill the baby (because feminism says it'll make you free and because the law says you can) and then catch AIDS from one of your many one night stands (that feminism says is your right.) And then whine like crazy because nobody cared enough to save you from yourself and your stupid feminism.

Comment by Jeff Musall

July 24th 2008 03:48
Damn, just when a guy thought he had heard it all - a woman saying women shouldn't be allowed to vote. I didn't know Ann Coultergeist has the same view, but I'm not surprised. Ruby, I feel that a passionate person is often just as (if not more) defined by those who despise them as those who love them. On that note, you Rock!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 03:48
hi alt_ed,
yes i am a bit partial to the Greens on alot of issues . . . but in general i think its a good thing that women are represented in parliament!


hi Queenie,
i think there are whole generations of women who arent taught how much hard work was done by Feminists before them . . . the choices we have today should never be taken for granted, they were not given, they were won!



Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 04:07
hi Ruby,
oh i really only jotted down a few points, i would still love to see any article you write on the same matter!
you only have to go as far back as my mothers generation where womens careers were limited to nurses, teachers, or receptionists
i love Jane Austen novels, mostly for the contrast of how women lived a century ago, upper class women were practically house-bound, unable to inherit, unable to earn an income, completely reliant on their fathers or husbands
i think every once in awhile it is good to reflect on why modern women are allowed to wear pants, or run companies, or divorce abusive spouses etc


hi Mrs M,
thanks for the article links
we have come a long way from being paid half-wages and being worked like slaves . . . the more lucrative professions (like engineering) still do not attract equal numbers of women, i think it is a cultural thing that many parents dont encourage their daughters to be interested in math and science and construction . . . but i agree, there are still quite a few barriers for women in the workplace (hopefully getting less as time goes on)
just this year i heard of a law suit being settled against a solicitors firm in the UK who were holding business meetings at strip clubs to exclude female employees

Comment by Louie

July 24th 2008 04:10
Before Feminism, would women have been allowed to write political commentary and have an opinion on such matters as abortion and, well the general behavior of women???

I severely doubt it, wasn't the rule, women were to be seen and not heard. ??????

So am I right in thinking, that even if the anti feminist females were right, then by definition, the mere fact that they express an opinion makes them, well wrong......



Or am I all wrong here......

Please help me, all this responsibility of running a business and all these freedoms I have such as voting and buying property and enjoying my life have all made my head very fuzzy. oh please I need a man to clarify my thoughts......

great post morgan, had a good few laughs down the comment trail.




Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 04:13
I'll leave you children (especially Ruby and Jeffy-poo) to your discussions. Try to remember, if you can, that he or she who sleeps around can get AIDS and that there is no abortion or other cure that will stop it. All the good that was accomplished by the early feminists was erased when women started acting the way Ruby talks.

Comment by alt_ed

July 24th 2008 04:19
Once again i would like to reiterate that S.L. is in fact INSANE!

I guess it was the feminist's who forced you into a relationship with a man who punched your pregnant belly S.L.??? Yes, blame those women seeking equality for what's WRONG in your own life S.L.

In fact, the only person in this thread whinging like crazy because nobody cared enough to save you from yourself is YOU!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 04:20
hi S.L.
it is not just promiscuous women who use birth control, reproductive rights are also there for married women and monogamous women
if you are married and only want to have two children then that is all you should have
when there were laws saying men can have sex with their wives without consent and no contraception was available there was simply no choice, you could fulfill your role as a baby machine or be turfed out on the street to live in poverty


hi Jeff,
i am surprised Anne Coulter would say that too, maybe she doesnt include herself in the category of "woman"?
it is strange that someone who has built a career in the media and law and politics would express a desire to give up her right to have her say

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 04:20
One last comment before I give up on this. Louie, I have owned businesses and run them quite well without my husband being involved. I have worked at several jobs that were previously strictly male. That isn't my point. What I've been trying to say is that being able to have certain jobs and to vote and to own property, etc. are good things. Unfortunately those good things have been severely damaged by feminism when it comes to abortion and promiscuity (and AIDS) or is that not something of interest to the new feminist who thinks that she is immortal and can't come down with a deadly disease? Have you got AIDS Louie or have you killed any of your children? If not, good for you. If so, by all means, thank feminism.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 04:28
Oh now I have heard it all!

Feminists are to be blamed for AIDS.

And here I was thinking it was God's punishment on homosexuals.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 04:33
Dammitt, you got me to speak up again, Morgan. Birth control isn't the problem I have with feminism. It's passing oneself aound like a plate of goodies at a party that bothers me! The rhythm method does work, you know, by the way, if it's marriage you're talking about. It's when women screw indescriminately (like Ruby brags about doing) and relieves herself of any responsibility with birth control and abortion that makes me angry. What ever happened to behaving oneself? Do we all have to act like whores to be "free?" And what of the millions of "liberated" women who die from AIDS every year because feminism says it's O.K. to sleep around? Don't they matter in the feminist viewpoint? Is it just winning the game that matters to them and not the "rewards" that some have to deal with? Abortion may make them feel like they can do anything they want to, but what of the diseases that they contract and then spread. Don't they matter as much as "feminist freedom?"

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 04:35
alt-ed, you are a loathsome lump of pond scum. I could almost be sorry that your mother was pro-life.

Comment by Mrs M

July 24th 2008 04:35
SL,

I think you need to look into the history of HIV and AIDS before you blame feminism as the cause for its widespread presence in females.

Or at least I'm assuming you are only taking about how widespread through the female gender.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 04:37
hi Louie,
hey you are a great example of a young woman who enjoys her freedoms and respects where they came from!
financial independance has been a major factor in women being able to think for themselves and run their own lives


hi S.L.
i dont really think AIDS is a result of Feminism, if anything Feminism has improved womens health services and taught women that we dont have to have sex with men if we dont want to . . . we can make our own choices

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 04:39
Good night, Morgan. I have enjoyed visiting your blog many times because you have a little common sense and are able to articluate things very well. However, the caliber of visiters you have this night are beneath contempt and I haven't heard a reasonable word form you in awhile. If you're going to turn your blog over to people like Ruby and alt-ed... have at it. But don't expect any better than them as your guests.

Comment by Johnny Come Lately

July 24th 2008 04:46
I feel embarrasssed for all females for the comments of S.L Bradish.

Never have I heard such a load or ridiculous bullshit. Of all of the women I know, none of them are promiscuous baby killing, disease spreading whores which is what she is inferring. All of them have retained their feminity and yet are strong women with rights and opinions long fought for. An intelligent woman who has a voice, an opinion and feels she is everybody's equal is an attractive, beautiful and feminine human being who I have nothing but the utmost respect for.

Very few comments have disgusted me quite as much as those made by S.L Bradish. Without feminism S.L you wouldn't be able to be making these comments as you would be told to sit down, shut up and mind your place. Come to think of it, maybe all the rights of feminism should be revoked because there is currently nobody I'd like to say that more to than you right now.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 04:49
I like how SL has just decided that I am a whore who does not use birth control and has had multiple abortions.

SL, Morgan is an amazing person who tries to find good in everyone and hence gives you far more time than you deserve.

But I'm not that polite. The only person who is bringing this blog down is yourself. In case you hadn't noticed you are somewhat of a laughing stock around here.

Later 'gator.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 04:58
Mrs. M, I'm well aware of Captain Jack and how he single-handedly brought AIDS to San Francisco many years ago. It started out as a gay disease and traveled to every social greoup around. My cousin died from it (compliments of a blood transfusion) and my husbands cousin died from it, too (thanks to dirty needles) So, yes, I do know a lot about AIDS. I also know that it has become a major killer all over the world because people can't keep their pants on. Feminism has "freed" women to be promiscuous, Mrs. M, and lots of women die from AIDS every year, or hadn't you heard?

Johnny Come Lately... my goodness, you must know the most sterling feminists on the planet! How nice for you. And how lovely that they are all vestal virgins, right? I'm just sure that not one of them has dropped her drawers because feminism said it was acceptable behavior for a liberated woman. And certainly no woman you know, of the feminist persuasion, would ever have an abortion just because she could. Thanks to feminism. What a lucky man you must be, Johnny.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 05:00
Go abort yourself, Ruby. I'm outa here Morgan.

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 05:03
Oh promises, promises SL, you've been saying you were going all morning.

But thanks for ending it with such a reasonable statement.

Oh yes, it is I and the others who have commented here today who are lacking in common sense and logic. Not you, never you...

Comment by alt_ed

July 24th 2008 05:30
What about all those woman living on the African continent S.L. AIDS is spread there due to the lack of RIGHTS afforded to woman... Men can still limply claim what and whom they want, without respect for a females right of choice.

I've said it before and I will say it again; you're many ridiculous claims about friends, relatives and personal experiences really do seem false. If you have indeed lived this colourful dark-fairy tale life then you deserve little more than my deepest sympathies for it is no doubt the reason you are the bitter god-bother'er we see today!

tata S.L.

Comment by S.L.

July 24th 2008 05:45
Last comment, just for you alt-ed. You don't know jack about anything. The African women who have AIDS are a side view of feminism. The women in the rest fo the world who die from it have feminism to thank. Too sad that your mother ws pro-life when you were the product.

Comment by Norm

July 24th 2008 05:46
I'd like to say God love 'em.
But I'm not sure he could

Comment by alt_ed

July 24th 2008 05:53
God S.L. make up your frigen mind-- R u pro-life or Pro-choice? Or do you only jump down from the fence when it suits...

God does any news every reach you in that ivory castle S.L. ?


Comment by Johnny Come Lately

July 24th 2008 07:08
The women and children dying from AIDS on the African continent are a side view of feminism? WTF? How the hell do you get to that conclusion? S.L you make the Amish seem positively progressive.

I don't think there would be a single person reading your comments on this post that doesn't now see you as a completely irrational person incapable of intelligent debate. As someone above said, you have made yourself into a laughing stock. Nobody who is reading this could see your comments as anything other than deluded rantings and after this I doubt anyone here will ever take anything you say seriously.

I'm sure every single woman reading this is a diseased slut who has had numerous abortions. If that is your view of the majority of the "world outside of S.L" then I suggest you seek help now as you are obviously unbalanced.

Comment by Mrs M

July 24th 2008 07:26
Hi SL...and Morgan,

If it started out as a gay disease, then how did women come into the picture?

And what of men and their 'promiscuity'? What if husbands had gay lovers and then went home to their dutiful wives.....

You've just pointed out two tragic deaths from AIDS and neither had anything to do with sex.


Mrs. M, and lots of women die from AIDS every year, or hadn't you heard?
There's no need to be rude SL.

I've never been rude to you SL. I'm just asking questions to back up your claims.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Hi Morgan,


Absolutely pay has improved but when you see that it was over 30 years ago that legislation for equal pay was put into place and it still isn't quite the case, then there is more fighting and protesting that needs to be done.

I'm not sure that there will ever be a time that feminism ever achieves its goals. Keep on fighting girls.

But yes, we are definitely in a much better situation than ever before.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 08:10
just a few facts about women in the USA and HIV/AIDS:

Black women account for 66% of AIDS cases amongst all women in the USA

Per population black women are 21 times more likely to get AIDS than white women (Latinas are 5 times more likely than whites)

Black and Hispanic women represent 24% of all US women. However, women in these 2 groups account for 82% of new AIDS diagnoses in women

Heterosexual intercourse is the leading cause of transmission amongst women (73%) followed by injection drug use (24%)

About 76% of HIV infected women care for dependant children in their homes.

About 2% of HIV infected women who become pregnant pass the virus on to their children.

Proportion of new AIDS cases that are women:
1985 - 8%
1990 - 12%
1995 - 20%
2000 - 27%
2008 - 27%

There are about 1.2 millions people living with HIV/AIDS in the USA today and 300,000 of them are women.

Women who have HIV/AIDS are disproportionately low-income, 64% have annual incomes under $10,000

In 1996 it was found that 17% of all prison releasees were HIV positive. In 1997 it was confirmed that AIDS was 5.5 times higher amongst prisoners than in the general population. 11% of young black men and 4% of young hispanic men are incarcerated (compared to 1.5% of white men)

Really Long Link
Really Long Link
Really Long Link

i think there is far more correlation between poverty, incarcertion, and drug use and the transmission of HIV/AIDS than there is between Feminism and HIV/AIDS

Comment by Michaelie

July 24th 2008 08:58
Fantastic post, Morgan. You said it all, baby!



Bloody hilarious comments. I would almost have thought it was meant to be comedy.

Ruby, you slapper, I also blame global warming and the price of petrol on your whorish antics. Heh heh.

Oh now I have heard it all!

Feminists are to be blamed for AIDS.

And here I was thinking it was God's punishment on homosexuals.

Hahahaha great line.

Michaelie

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 09:44
hi Michaelie,
yeah the comments did start getting a bit crazy!
i think sometimes women forget all the positive things the Feminist movement have brought us . . . most of the changes have happened in the last 100-150 years but i have seen many postive changes in my short lifetime . . . i just hope each new generation takes the time to remember


hi Mrs M,
you make an interesting point about how slowly changes occur even after laws are brought in
in the year group i did my university course with there were only 2 women (including myself) out of about 35 that were studying civil engineering
i am always impressed when i see women as CEOs of companies . . . i think (hope) we will achieve equality in the end!


hi Johnny,
An intelligent woman who has a voice, an opinion and feels she is everybody's equal is an attractive, beautiful and feminine human being who I have nothing but the utmost respect for.
what a wonderful sentiment!
thanks for the good vibes!
i agree, us women are generally trustworthy responsible people who are completely competant of making choices for themselves!


hi Norm,
maybe God is a Feminist herself?

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 10:16
hi S.L.

i can understand why you personally do not approve of the concept of "free love" as it rejects the institution of marriage which i know you hold dearly as a Christian

many Feminists are also critical of the concept of "free love" and consider its use in the counterculture of the 60s and 70s as a male strategy to undermine a woman's ability to say no to sex

i think you would be hard pressed to find a Feminist who recommends promiscuity or unsafe sex

what Feminists do say is that if a woman chooses not to marry or chooses to express her sexuality she should still be treated with respect and afforded the same rights as every other human being

Feminists believe you should not miss out on work, education, legal, financial, or political opportunities based on your gender, sexuality, sex life, or marital status

i understand your concerns about promiscuity and unsafe sex i just dont think Feminism promotes either of these things . . . showing compassion and understanding and respect for people who choose lifestyles different to your own is not the same as encouraging or forcing certain behaviours

i also dispute that Feminism is to blame for the spread of HIV/AIDS (see statistics in previous comment)

on a more positive note, i see the USA Marine Corps (which i understand your granddaughter has joined) are now comprised of 6.2% women - a small but growing move in the right direction - and as of 1995 they now have female pilots!

Really Long Link

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 13:54
Haha. SL Bradish has written a revenge post. This is what she has to say about me:


Ruby Soho is a pathetic waste of skin and air and her feminist crappola is sickening to real women.

Because I of course, like all feminists, am actually a cyborg.

And then she goes on to say that women who are raped deserve it. Fabulous.

Who needs men to put us down when we have brainwashed women like SL Bradish to do it for them?


Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 14:13
hi Ruby,

i actually find the comments on that post quite shocking, and i dont shock easily

Really Long Link

sluts deserve to be raped . . . and hunted down and killed like the dirty bitches they are . . . wow

some of those comments actually make me feel sick

ive said pretty much all i have to say over here, and frankly i find some of those people commenting downright scary

Comment by RubySoho

July 24th 2008 14:25
Oh Morgan, I feel sick. I hadn't read those last few comments when I was there.

And I'm not surprised to see that Bradish congratulated them on their "common sense".

There is a line between expressing your opinion and inciting hatred. That post and its comments have crossed that line.

Can you see now, why I refuse to show that woman an inkling of respect? I cannot believe those comments. I am ashamed to be human. I'm just devastated.

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 24th 2008 14:32
Ladies aren't respected anymore.

If 'ladies' were respectable because they weren't able to make the choice to do anything other than be a virgin until they got married to a man and have 2.5 kids after that, then I wouldn't want to be a 'lady'. What about the choice to be asexual, have sex with other women, have sex as it suits them, and not have children?

I would love to be 'promiscuous' - to engage in sexual activity as often as possible - however my high standards mean that I do it only about once a year because when it comes down to it, rare is the person who genuinely stimulates my mind and hence my body.

But promiscuity is generally NOT the problem. In my anthropology class last year we analysed what kind of behaviour most puts people at risk of AIDS, and according to the world-renowned Harvard anthropologist/physician Paul Farmer it's the condition of... get ready for this... being poor or female, with poor females at the most risk. No mention of homosexuality, and not much of promiscuity either (although he mentions that sex workers and truck drivers are some of the professions more at risk). One of his case studies is a young Haitian woman from a rural province who worked hard all day to help feed herself and her family. She contracted the disease from the second man she ever slept with. Anyway, he dedicated some of his time to educating economically disadvantaged women in Haiti about how to prevent infection, and found that that the women who he was able to reach used this new knowledge and were able to greatly reduce their chances of infection.

What do you think differentiates the rate of infection in America and Africa (It can be up to 1 in 4 ppl in some countries)? It's not that Africans are more promiscuous than their American counterparts. It's that they lack access to information about how to protect themselves and often access to condoms and other methods of contraception.

As for the claim that AIDS is now or ever was a 'gay disease', that's just homophobic crap. [Read this], from the American Red Cross's site.

Women are considered pieces of meat because they have no mistique left.

Frequent sexual activity doesn't take away from a woman's mystique - and why should a woman have this mystique when a man doesn't? Shouldn't women have the opportunity to make mistakes, IF, for them, having many sexual partners is not satisfactory. By forcing women to act 'modest' and 'demure' you are suppressing a natural desire to experiment with image and identity. A woman SHOULD be able to make all the mistakes that a man can in discovering her sexual identity. Holding back someone is not giving them freedom - it's suppression, and that's what mainstream feminist practice has tried to abolish. If a woman decides to stay a virgin until she gets married, then that is a choice she is free to make in the context of the more open attitudes we have towards what women can and can't do in the west.

whore,

This word is demeaning to women, not just because it paints a woman's ability to be sexual in any way she pleases in a audaciously insulting light, but because there is no male equivalent. Men have historically been so afraid of female sexuality that they have tried to intimidate them into acting as they would like them to. Luckily not every female is as close-minded as you and help misogynists continue to attempt to control womens' sexuality.

screw

You say that as if having sex is a bad, nasty, virile thing. Why do you have so little respect for womens' sexual behaviour? I notice you have not said a single thing to indicate that you are as critical of male sexual behaviour when it steps outside your conservative standards.

Also, no matter what Ruby may have written about her sexual behaviour, it is rude for you to attempt to insult her based on your understanding of her sexuality. Maybe if you tried to understand where she is coming from more then you wouldn't need to lash out at other people.

And your allusion to wishing Alt_ed had never been born is awful - I don't know how you see that such a hurtful attack has any place on Orble. I was quite disturbed to read it.

And if you get AIDS (...) you can die just like a man.

That's the point. We are equal. With freedom comes responsibility, but does that mean that freedom should be withheld? Think about it.

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 24th 2008 14:41
I loved your post, Morgan - it's great to refresh my grasp of historical dates and think further about what might happen in the future by inspecting the past closer.

At uni I learnt about different types of feminism over teh ages - for example, we are supposed to be experiencing 'third wave' or 'postfeminism' feminism atm, where women think that we are adequately liberated, and embrace certain restrictions, such as wearing make-up, or taking all the domestic responsibility, as empowering. This would probably be a good topic for someone to write on.

Ruby - I don't think there can be too many posts celebrating feminism...

Comment by Summer Minor

July 24th 2008 14:45
Ahh, SL. A shining example of the morally upstanding and virtuously proper women on the right. What a breath of polluted air.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 24th 2008 15:13
hi Ruby,
yeah i find any advocation of violence towards women deeply disturbing . . . its a bit like one of those things i wish i didnt see


hi epiphanie,
hey im glad you enjoyed the post!
i like to tip my hat to the old Feminists every once in awhile!
and i agree, there can never be too many articles, i cant wait to see Ruby's take on the topic, she's a great researcher and im a sucker for history and stats!


hi Summer,
thanks for stopping in and checking out my article!
i always enjoy reading about Feminist issues on your blog . . . keep up the good work!

Comment by Mr Nice Guy

July 24th 2008 23:20
I love a good stouch . . .

Nothing quite like getting the gloves off and 'having a go'.

Street brawler vs prize fighter . . . I'm transfixed by the salvo's being fired across collective bows.

You've a captive audience here Morgan.


Comment by Carolyn Cordon

July 25th 2008 01:58
Wow, this has been interesting. Feminists caused AIDS, kill unborn babies. Who thought feminists had such powers?

Really, what can you do with people like SL? Coninue fighting the good fight and hope they see the light. Or at least light lots of candles the way you are here Morgan - Goodonya, I've enjoyed this little discussion.

Comment by Jeff Musall

July 25th 2008 02:22
What those of you who haven't been exposed to it need to realize is that SL is not an anomaly, she is representive of far right America, feeding on hate, seething with the desire to dominate. These are the people who, if they had their way, would make America a Christo-fasicst country with designs of world domination. The funny thing is, their world would only be different from that of the Islamic fundamentalists they so despise is the name of the god they kill under. Oh, and they would have nuclear weapons. Don't make the mistake of just dismissing SL as a hate-filled and scornful person. Her and her ilk are what I am far more concerned about than anyone in Iraq, to be honest. That side of the right seems to be on the ropes now, and things look good for a president Obama. But that's far from certain. And even if it happens, the sickos who would consider SL's words to be "truth" would not go away.
What SL has shown on this post (and many others) is that she is not worthy of consideration, not worthy of the attempt at discussion. What needs to happen is to marginalize her and those like her to the point where they are mindless voices blowing in the wind, with no real power or influence.

Comment by RubySoho

July 25th 2008 02:32
The funny thing is, their world would only be different from that of the Islamic fundamentalists they so despise is the name of the god they kill under.

Hey Jeff, funny you should say that. CLICKHERE for my new post which discusses this. It's called SL Bradish or Sheik Al-Hilali?


But just as a side note, 'Allah' means 'God' in Arabic. It's the same God.

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

July 25th 2008 02:33
Thanks for that Jeff, I'm amazed at the things I read on the internet. I'm a woman living in rural South Australia, and fairly liberal minded, and I'm so often astounded at the muddle-headed wrong thinking I hear and read.

It's good to know that I'm not alone. I sincerely hope firstly, that Obama wins that damned election, and secondly that he lives up to his promise and promises.

I'm worried about our world if something better doesn't happen - things are looking pretty dire.

Comment by D. Armenta

July 25th 2008 02:47
Oh shit--and we had such a nice cease-fire going there for awhile, S.L. Oh well..

Let us start with the basics; you are, I believe, a woman--correct? You also vote, I assume.

You're also a writer, no? A thinking individual with her own opinions, feelings and thoughts--right?

{You must have the cleanest floor in the U.S., what with all the sweeping generalizations you make. Really.}

Let me illustrate to you what the response would have been if you had walked into a newspaper office in 1800 and said you wanted to write an op-ed column about politics:

"Politics? Now why would a woman want to worry her pretty little head about such things? How about a nice little piece about cooking, hmmmmm? We'll publish you for free and you'll get your name in the paper! Won't that be nice?"

Oh yes---the rage would rise up as you thought "Wait a minute you assholes! Why would you assume I know nothing of politics just because I'm a woman??"

Agree or disagree?

Wait for it, Bradish. We're not entering the battlefield yet. These are just the preliminaries, so a simple yes or no will suffice for now.


Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 06:36
hi MNG,
good to know im keeping you captive! haha
i presume im the street brawler?
i actually thought the original post was fairly tame, im surprised myself at how polarising a few facts about women and equality could be!


hi Carolyn Cordon,
welcome to my crazy blog!
im in Tasmania now, but spent the bulk of my adult life and high school years in Sydney and Newcastle, so i can totally relate to your surprise at ultra conservative opinions . . . i just dont think we are exposed to them that much here in Australia . . . interacting with Americans on Orble has been a real wake up call to me about how differently the other half live!
thanks for joining in the discussion!


hi Ruby,
thanks for the link, i will check it out!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 06:46
hi Jeff,
i had never watched Bill O'Reilly before this year but the more i see of him and how popular he is, the more i can see there is a great divide in America at the moment.
here in Australia the TV personalities from the USA that i am used to seeing are Ellen Degeneres, Dave Letterman, Oprah Winfrey, Jerry Seinfeld, and even Jerry Springer . . . we tend to get the lighter entertainment programs from your culture that represent moderate views . . . the first time i saw anything from Fox News it was a homophobic commentary on Chris Crocker and now i spend hours looking up clips from American right-wing political programs on YouTube and am completely amazed!


hi D.Armenta,
i like your example from 1800 . . . i think its pretty much spot on!
you would probably also be beaten by your husband when you got home for having the audacity to leave the house unsupervised!

Comment by Natalie 2

July 25th 2008 09:03
Wow. I've been away from Orble for a couple of days, and it appears that I missed a lot!

I agree with all of the well made comments by Ruby, Morgan, alt_ed, and the rest of you, so I won't rehash all of it. Just a general WELL SAID, ALL!

The only thing I would like to add here is that as an American, this stuff just shames me so much. It is interesting that at the same time that we have a Presidential Candidate drawing 200,000 Germans to hear him speak, we also have a crazy neo-conservative Republican party that scares the rest of the world away.

S.L.,

It goes without saying that I strongly disagree with you on just about everything. But never before have I heard a more evil statement than those that you made wishing for the people who disagree with you to have been aborted. Obviously, most reasonable people find your comments disturbing and hateful. But, hopefully even those who would be inclined to agree with many of your sentiments will count you as discredited after seeing you make such awful and hypocritical statements such as:

Too sad that your mother ws pro-life when you were the product.

Go abort yourself, Ruby.


alt-ed, you are a loathsome lump of pond scum. I could almost be sorry that your mother was pro-life.


I'm not sure that Jesus would have wished that even on his worst enemies. Remember, S.L....WWJD???

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 09:57
hi Natalie,
thanks for reading along and contributing to the discussion!
this is yet another one of my posts than sort of morphed into a forum, so its a good example of how many articulate and sassy women (and men) there are here on Orble
im an Atheist but one of my absolute favourite expressions is "what would Jesus do?" . . . whether you think he is the son of god or just a benevolent historical figure or awesome folklore character . . . i think its a relevent question for all people (religious or otherwise) to ask themselves when interacting with others

Comment by Cheryl J

July 25th 2008 10:07
Morgan that was a great post on a fabulous subject. We can thank early feminists for changing our lives for the better.

I have disagreed with SL before but for the most part thought even though she was over the top she was reasonably rational. Her comments on this post and her post blew that out of the water. I cannot believe there are people out there, let alone of the female gender that would say such things. It is beyond comprehension.

My grandparents were Catholic and my grandmother bore 15 children. She did not even have the option of the rhythm method espoused as so effective by SL. She had an abusive drunken husband who would not allow birth control and she had no choice whatsoever over sex. It was forced upon her whenever he chose and there was nothing she could do about it because it was his 'right' as her husband.

Now don't get me wrong, she loved each and every one of her children but I don't for one minute think that she would have chosen to spend the better part of her life being abused, pregnant and breastfeeding all the while trying to find a way to feed them as her husband also had complete control of the purse strings. I have nothing but respect for this amazing woman who did the absolute best she could and was one of the strongest people I knew but I'm also glad that feminists helped changed the laws to help other women in that situation.

Also, I just posted a comment on SL's blog regarding that 'sluts deserve murder' comment she praised. How could a woman whose own child was brutalised and murdered support that kind of sick and depraved comment?

I am sickened.

Comment by Natalie 2

July 25th 2008 10:33
I agree with you Morgan. One of my favorite questions to ask neo-cons is WWJD....because 99% of the time it would be the exact opposite of whatever hate filled rhetoric they spew in his name.

Not only does she wish for dissenters to be aborted, she now offers a veiled threat to alt_ed and other detractors in her most recent posting:

It wouldn't be much fun to find one of the miserable creatures on my doorstep. What a waste of a perfectly good 20 guage shell that would be!

Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

Sick.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 10:59
hi Cheryl,
thanks for sharing the story of your grandmother, it really makes me appreciate how things have changed for the better!
i really dont think the rythym method is effective at all, considered how irregular and unpredictable some womens periods are . . . i put it in the same basket as coitus interruptus (withdrawal/pulling-out) . . . and neither will protect against AIDS
i also find the notion of "sluts deserve murder" to be highly disturbing . . . i thought that was something only serial killers said?


hi Natalie,
yeah i dont think Jesus would be big on flinging personal insults, wishing people ill, or dead

Comment by Cheryl J

July 25th 2008 11:40
I actually think my eldest brother is a rhythm method baby haha!

I have to agree Morgan that due to unpredictable cycles it wouldn't be the best form of contraception although it's reasonably effective. But I'm sure there are even married couples that don't like to be restricted to only being able to have sex on particular days of the month. Kind of takes all of the romance away. Or is romance purely a feminist idea?


Comment by alt_ed

July 25th 2008 11:57
Morgan, I've gotta say-- You have a lot to answer for in this post, look at the great brouhaha you've facilitated!

God you're evil, pure evil (I love it!).

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 25th 2008 13:59
interacting with Americans on Orble has been a real wake up call to me about how differently the other half live

Around Stanford, California, the republicans are few, and very reluctant to share their views because they cop a lot of flack about them. I went to a dinner composed of Stanford drama graduate students at around the time of the 2004 election and we were talking about how to campaign more strongly for Kerry - they said they didn't know anyone who didn't voted democrat, they were just preaching to the already converted. And Stanford is supposed to be the more conservative of the Bay Area unis. So it really depends which subculture you're part of, in which part of the US.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 14:01
hi Cheryl,
hey if couples want to choose to use the rhythm method at the expense of spontenaity then all power to them . . . everyone is different and values different things . . . but if anyone asked my personal opinion i think there are much more effective methods of contraception (ie The Pill, condoms, IUD)


hi alt_ed,
i havent seen this much brouhaha since i posted a pic of a semi-nude guy doing a spot of baking . . . its always the posts you least expect!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 14:37
hi epiphanie,
i have never know a woman in real life to suggest that there are times where rape or violence is deserved . . . not in my whole life living here in Australia . . . i have heard a few men on road construction gangs say they thought "drunk aboriginal" women would lie about being gang-raped (do you remember the case with the Bulldogs NRL football team controversy in 2004?) . . . but i have never ever encountered that kind of "conservatism" in real life in Australia
i know there are many many great people in America, but i also think you could only know that kind of right-wing theory in a place like America

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 25th 2008 14:42
Hey Morgan,

Perhaps it's just the people you've met - you seem to run with a pretty liberal, progressive crowd...
Sadly, I can imagine someone in Australia espousing similar views to that voiced by SL and others on her blog. I can even imagine a disgruntled Sydneysider doing so.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 25th 2008 14:58
hi epiphanie,

im from Newcastle, a working class city, everyone i grew up with worked in trades or the mines, i didnt know a single Feminist or homosexual until i was 21 . . . my family are ultra-conservative Liberal Party voters whose main interests are in small business and the sharemarket . . . my entire working career all of my colleagues were conservative professional middle-aged men or macho tradesmen in the engineering and construction fields

yes i choose to socialise with mainly left-wing and moderate people now, but i only have to walk out to my living room room to hear about how Barack Obama is a terrorist

i say this without exaggerating: i have NEVER EVER in my entire life heard anyone say a woman was "asking for it" with regards to rape, apart from villains in American movies

have you actually heard someone say that?

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 25th 2008 15:09
If it helps, my mother compared Barack Obama to Hitler re: wanting to speak before a crowd in Germany. My dad is the more open-minded of the two, saying he has come around to accept that if Obama does something 'un-American' they will impeach him. My uncle in Bulgaria just thinks that America needs a Muslim president to withdraw from Iraq... so Iran can be attacked now.

I believe that you haven't heard anyone say that, as for myself, I think I must have because it doesn't surprise me. I have heard plenty of guys ask 'how can she be offended if I think she's easy when she dresses like that', refer to 'easily-removable tops' and 'f@$%-me boots' (I've heard women refer to that as well). Ugh.

Comment by sandeye

July 25th 2008 18:36
I am glad that it works for YOU.
Feminism really doesn't work for me.
I WANT to be my man's property.
I CHOOSE to have him own/drive/direct/guide me...
Feminism has made it harder for me to live the way i feel one NATURALLY should. it has only damaged the way I personally choose to live.
I have several friends who are pro-feminism, but I will never join in.
I truly believe that if women stayed REAL women, and DID belong to their men, this world would run far better than currently.
Sorry to disagree - it happens! lol

Comment by Summer Minor

July 25th 2008 20:58
Morgan you should come up to the states sometime. I live in the middle of people like SL, it's certainly an interesting experience.

sandeye - The world was like that for thousands of years. Explain how things were any better then than they are now? Heck, explain how even with the advances we've made it's still not a male dominated world and going to hell in a handbasket. You know, war, recession, crime, poverty, majority of men in control of politics. Heh.

Not sure where you live exactly, but here in the South it's harder to be a feminist. You should move over, you could be owned and controlled by your husband 100% and you'be no different than anyone else. Location, location, location.

Comment by Cibbuano

July 25th 2008 23:42
...
...

I'm aghast...

...

and speechless. The internet is a wonderful thing because it allows you to reorient your ideas about the world. I never thought I'd hear someone suggest that women shouldn't vote, and feminism = AIDS.

Comment by D. Armenta

July 26th 2008 01:08
Well, I guess my old pal B.S. Brandish isn't coming back here..guess I'll have to go visit her latest spew.

She's about due for a cage rattling, I think.

Anyone else coming? I always log out first, then write a comment under anon. and sign my name so she doesn't get my karma points.

Comment by viper xeon

July 26th 2008 01:52
never have i heard such BULLSHIT dribble out of a mouth such as SL's.

ok so yeah. feminists caused abortions.. and AIDS. gee. say that to some of the African women who have contracted AIDS from rape. do you really think those women are whores? do you think they wanted to get raped, and get AIDS in the process.

and you was saying VD's where mostly a guy thing before the whole voting thing, blah blah blah. basically you was saying. "oh yeah. guys can sleep around with VD's that's fine" but when a woman dose that. she's brandished as a whore.

why's that? i wonder to my self. we shall never know because SL's is a idiot, who sounds like a sexist guy.

Comment by RubySoho

July 26th 2008 02:28
never have i heard such BULLSHIT dribble out of a mouth such as SL's.

Well you have to admit, SANDEYE comes pretty close.

Comment by Mrs M

July 26th 2008 03:18
Hi Morgan,

Sandeye's comment just reminded me of a post I wrote in June 2007 about "The Surrendered Wife".

"The Surrendered Wife"

It got 40 comments, so it was a hot topic then too.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Jeff Musall

July 26th 2008 04:49
Morgan, I agree with Summer Minor - you should come to the states....as she said, it is location, location - you won't find too much of SL's attitude in Portland, for example - but you don't have to go that far away to find it. It is a sad truth that she is far from alone - especially in some areas. And it's more than just ignorance - it's rank stupidity coupled with hate-mongering and self-righteous dogma. Those are the people who represent the real threat to America. They wrap themselves in the flag never acknowledging that they are so far away from the ideals laid out in our Constitution.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 04:50
hi Sandeye,
if you choose to be a man's property and not take advantage of your rights then that is your perogative, but do acknowledge it is a choice that every women should be given because we are all different
i respect your right to live your life however you choose but i would never wish to live in a time where that choice was not available


hi Summer,
i cant even imagine!
"Location, location, location." haha


hi Cibbuano,
shocking isnt it!
i wasnt expecting it either . . .






Comment by Carolyn Cordon

July 26th 2008 04:53
I'm kind of living the life Sandeye's espouses, in that I am more or less unemployed and so 'kept' by my husband. But he and I have an equal partnership, neither would spend huge money on anything without discussing it. We both make the big decisions together. I am in charge of the small 'home' type things, he goes to work to earn the money our family needs.

But I am a feminist - I chose to live this way. The thought of working 9-5 for the boss seems more like slavery than being a stay-at-home mum. I can up tools and go do lunch if I want, I can spend endless hours on websites like this one! I'm a writer, thinker, dreamer, and I love the spare time I have in my life. Some of my feminist sisters might say I've sold out, I don't know. I just know that feminism, for me, is all about choice.

I choose to not be a wage slave, but a happy wife and mother instead, creatively cooking, crocheting, looking after the dogs, and pursuing my writing career, such as it is. It's my choice!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 04:59
hi D.Armenta,
ive responded with what i think on this post, and i actually find people advocating violence towards women to be really disturbing so i probably wont be visiting some of those posts anytime soon


hi viper xeon,
i always wonder who all those men with VD from the olden days were sleeping with?
it take two to tango!
or perhaps homosexuality was more widespread than we have been led to believe and they were all sleeping with each other?
or MAYBE there was just one really busy, really diseased old whore who was in charge of servicing all the men?

Comment by RubySoho

July 26th 2008 05:04
or MAYBE there was just one really busy, really diseased old whore who was in charge of servicing all the men?

Damn! Caught out again.

Boom boom.




Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 05:07
hi Ruby,
yeah well i dont really see how it is damaging to any one woman for another woman to be financially independant and free from marital abuse
to each her own!


hi Mrs M,
thanks for the link . . . ill go and check it out!


hi Jeff,
i wonder (genuinely) if the American constitution actually defines a particular role for women? or if this is all just some modern invention of tradition?

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 05:14
hi Carolyn,
i respect your choices!
and should you ever feel the need to leave your husband or seek a different role in life (maybe you never will) but IF you do i would hope you have every freedom to make that choice aswell
i dont think Feminism forces any lifestyle on a woman, Feminism just fights to keep those options open
many Feminists are wives and mothers, because (like you) that was the best choice for them


hi Ruby,
hahahaha was that YOU?
you are remarkably young and spritely for someone who has been servicing all the men in the world since the 1800s LOL

Comment by RubySoho

July 26th 2008 05:23
Well as SL and Sandeye so reasonably and logically point out, I am not actually a REAL woman. So I don't age, nor will I ever die. Just call me the feminist Highlander.

I go from civilisation to civilisation unleashing my feminist crappola with the higher aim of devastating society.

I seem to have done a pretty good job in the West. Next on my list is Saudi Arabia were all the REAL women are owned/driven/directed/guided by their men. It's such a perfect society and a bastion of what the West could be if only us nasty feminists were not around to ruin it all.

Oh yeah, I am looking forward to ruining the perfect lives of those women who are only living NATURALLY and are CHOOSING to belong to their men. And of course, those men are not abusing their power in any way.

Oh yes, that perfect society has got to go. I can't stand that sort of perfection, I...must...destroy...it.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 16:01
hi Ruby,
i am continually surprised that anyone would assert there is only one "natural" way to live, and that we should all submit to their vision of it
no wonder youre out there destroying all that "perfection" haha

Comment by D. Armenta

July 26th 2008 16:28
Oh come on..you don't really place any credibility in Bradish do you? All that nastiness is a ploy to get people to keep going to her blog. It works, too, apparently.

I still like to rattle her cage occasionally.. the madder she gets, the funnier her responses are.

Comment by RubySoho

July 26th 2008 16:38
Hi D. I don't know about anyone else but I have never associated Bradish with credibility.

But yes, her comments here and the comments from her cronies have been like a kick in the guts to me.

And Jon removing my post from the home page whilst leaving all her posts up did not help things any.

But even more than that is the post that Brenton has put up in support of her. Honestly, that post is the most disappointing thing of all. I can't believe that anyone can defend someone who says that women deserve to be hunted down and killed. And then accuse me of being a Klansman, a pirhana and picking on Bradish simply because she "belongs to a different school of thought".

Since when is hating women to the point of calling for their rape and murder an acceptable school of thought?

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 26th 2008 16:46
I'm fully behind Ruby, I admire the post that she wrote in response to SL's comments and think it should be read as widely as possible by the community. I also think that if you feel similarly you should write about it on the writers' forum like I intend to do when the message Ruby submitted for approval gets posted up. This decision to wipe the popular posts of traces of criticism of SL is very dubious at best.

Comment by D. Armenta

July 26th 2008 16:54
Sticks and stones.

I got a good laugh when she called me a "lesbian transsexual woman-hater" --(huh??) along with a few other amusing monikers.

She digs holes for herself, and I have to admit I enjoy watching (and sometimes enabling) the whole process.

That one guy who commented on Brenton's post had the right idea: send her to Coventry.

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 17:23
hi D,
i like the expression "rattle her cage" haha
i sometimes comment S.L.s blog but usually only if i have some info to add, some new stats or a definition or a different interpretation etc
on issues where i have already expressed my opinion and it is clear we dont agree i just find it tiring to keep saying the same things over and over
i find you can dispute facts if they are given, but if posts are just opinion and you know the person is set in their ways and youve said it all before . . . well you might as well go hit your head against a brick wall haha

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 26th 2008 17:32
hi Ruby,
yeah i dont know what Jon is up to with that?
i dont approve of censoring the posts just because another user doesnt "like" them in cases where there are no slander or vulgarity
there are HEAPS of posts i dont "like" but i dont ever call for their removal
i have had my fair share of anti-Morgan posts written about me, and i have observed a great deal of anti-Ruby posts too, and i dont recall any of them being removed from the homepage


hi epiphanie,
yes "dubious" is a good word for it!

Comment by Anonymous

July 26th 2008 21:39
Excellent post Morgan. There is good and bad in everything I suppose. I like to think of myself as a feminist who just wants equality and I think that the majority of us do. For sure there are extremists who are for women-powered society, but there is a fringe to every movement. I'm a stay-at-home mom by choice, but I know that one day I will have a great career in front of me. Choice- thats all its about.

I love the attempts by some posters to say that feminism is a bad thing because it removed the cloud that was protecting us from other evils. Thats hilarious! Oh wait...that wasn't a joke???!!!!???

The constitution does not lay out any particular stance on women, except that it originally prevented them from holding office or voting (which was corrected later). Throughout the bill of rights, the word "person" or "people" is used, which would obviously apply equally to both sexes.

Comment by Josie

July 26th 2008 21:40
That was me above- it posted anon by mistake...

Comment by JH

July 26th 2008 23:19
You know, I'm a male, and I fully believe that women should have every right men have. Elitism, capitalism, segregation and prejudice have all been causes of many problems in the U.S., not women having power. I'm a full believer of the quote "Those that wouldn't give a freedom to their worst enemy doesn't believe in that freedom at all". People are people. Women aren't perfect, men aren't perfect, and it has nothing to do with their genders.

I will point out that I also detest hatred focused on a group of individuals that someone has done something wrong, and everyone condemning the rest of them. If people hate all Muslims and lump them in with terrorists, then you need to open your eyes. It's called bigotry. (insert more random, off topic ranting here)

Comment by Kleonaptra

July 27th 2008 03:15
Ok.

I do not want to look like I am agreeing with SL so I am going to very carefully explain where I am coming from.

In the beginnings of history, men did not rule. All family lines were matrilineal - because you could never be sure who the father was - and rulers or tribal leaders were always women. It was a few thousand years ago when cultures began to clash together, and if you read ANYTHING at all by Marion Zimmer Bradley - who was a historian as well as a writer - you'll get lots of beautifully written info on it. I highly recommend 'The Firebrand' for the part where the Queen of another city is going on about the trouble in Troy - she says, "All this has come from women who cannot control their men!" Meaning Helen, specifically!

It is my belief that the years of opression are a direct result of this rulership. Men had to prove themselves superior and thus we suffered. The balance has shifted to be sure, but I do not believe it has shifted aright, not yet. In society today there are men who are far too feminine, and females who are too masculine - I am one of them!

I do not believe that men and women are equal. They never have been, they never will be. A woman is not as physically strong as a man, and a man cant have a baby. We are not equal. We arent supposed to be.

A great majority of feminists these days do seem to want complete rulership, and I have even heard preaching to rid men of society all together. Perhaps they should invent a different flag to fly under?

Im the first to admit - Im too far on the wrong side. Have any of you read 'Queen of The Damned?' I cry every time Akasha gets killed. Every time. Id follow her, I know I would, Im weak. Ive been opressed and thus I seek to take revenge by showing men what women can do. But I dont think its leading to a good place.

Thats just one confused little opinion.


Comment by S.L.

July 27th 2008 03:23
I won't accuse you of agreeing with me, Kleonaptra, honest. But I can easily agree with you. We went from a matriarchal society to a patriarchal one and the changes must have been difficult for those folks to adapt to. But after a very long time, the pendulum swung again and instead of stopping somewhere in the middle, it got stuck on the other side. Physical equality (or even mental because men's and women's minds work differently, too) will never work. Equality under the law is not a bad thing, in fact it's necessary for a society to deal with their differences and manage to prosper. Feminism hasn't done much to help that after the first few steps. Maybe someday society will set itself arights.

Comment by RubySoho

July 27th 2008 03:56
Oh for pity's sake I give up.

Being equal does not mean we are not allowed to be different.


When we get to the point in society when 1 in 4 women are no longer raped, when rape is no longer used as a weapon in war, when the government does not have to run ads on the television telling the population that violence against women is wrong, then you can start talking about the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.

We do not live in a patriarchy as a backlash against old matriarchial civilisations. We live in a patriarchy because our current world has been shaped by the patriarchial religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

As with just about everything else, it comes back to religion.

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 27th 2008 05:06
men who are far too feminine, and females who are too masculine - I am one of them

Kleo, I don't think it's fair on anyone to say that men and women have to act a certain way, in keeping with traditional gender identities. I have had men who are not used to intelligent, opinionated women refer to me as 'sir' before they catch themselves, because they only encounter my kind of attitude from men. Does that make me 'too masculine'?
I think it's up to the individual to assume a gender identity that makes them happy, and it's not fair to impose your values of femininity and masculinity upon them. Perhaps you have had other people impose theirs on you?

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 27th 2008 05:41
hi Josie,
thanks for the info on the constitution!
yeah it is strange to me that any women would dislike having her hands untied and the wool removed from her eyes . . . although S&M is a popular fetish, if people choose to live their lives bound and gagged then ill leave them to it! haha
im glad you can acknowledge being a Feminist even though you choose to take on a traditional role


hi Kleo,
ahh so you think the boys have been getting their revenge with the strict rule of the patriachy?
thanks for the historical context!
i think it the industrial world that physical size and strength is largely irrelevant in the work force . . . how strong do you need to be to drive a truck or operate a forklift or do calculations on a computer?
some women are stronger than most men, so i think job descriptions should always use prescriptive criteria like "must be able to lift a packing crate" or "must be able to run 5 miles" etc
banning all women from something because you presume most wont have the skills is unfair

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 27th 2008 05:51
hi S.L,
men did not suddenly change their minds and allow women into men-only careers and educational institutes, women petitioned the governments to change the laws, these women are called Feminists . . . women that believe they are entitled to equal opportunity, affordable health services, and financial independance are Feminists
it wasnt a matter of women being too lazy to sign up, they simply did not have the right until they protested to get it . . . if you wanted to be a pilot in the US Marines in 1970 (or even 1980) you could walk into the recruitment office and ask to be trained as one and they would say NO



Comment by Morgan Bell

July 27th 2008 05:58
hi Ruby,
i agree, there is still a huge problem with domestic violence and sexual assault . . . while many laws now reflect the ideals of equality there are still many cultural issues with people feeling threatened by the existance of non-traditional gender roles


hi JH,
thanks for stopping in and leaving a comment!
i think youve made a good point
Elitism, capitalism, segregation and prejudice have all been causes of many problems in the U.S
and i think that is relevant to Australia too


hi epiphanie,
i agree, inflexible gender roles do not promote diversity and tolerance, and limit everyone, not just women


Comment by postmoderncritic

July 27th 2008 06:12
I mean, what is 'feminine' and 'masculine' anyway? Everyone has a different definition, and in my opinion the fact that there are intersex people just exposes this as a flawed binary way of thinking. Gender is fluid, like sexual orientation/identity.

Comment by Jake

July 27th 2008 11:40
Hi S.L
I'm a male from Australia and after reading all your comments and their responses, i concluded that you backed yourself into a corner and had to resort to childishness to try to hold onto your "argument", like 'Go get AIDS!' and 'Kill your children'. Abortion is a persons right, it is not murder, and if theres one thing the world needs, its LESS CHILDREN. Overpopulation is a huge issue which is choking our cities and lifestyles. IF You dont want to accept that, it is your INDIVIDUAL right to do so.

If a 14 year old girl has sex (Yes extra-marital-non-procreation al sex) and her birth control doesn't work, should she have to endure the huge physical and emotional strains of teenage pregancy? The answer is no, and if you disagree, thats fine, have 20 children, don't use birth protection, but don't try to curb peoples rights.

If women were not allowed to vote, then 51 percent of the population would be completely ignored by the democratic system? Which ultimately renders it as fascism.

You insist that feminism encourages people to catch AIDS. A disease of which its acquisition has been used purely out of self interest to peoples social or religious beliefs. Need i go through "AIDS is a Gay disease" etc. If People get AIDS, it has nothing to do with whether they are a woman or whether they are gay or feminists, your treatment of it is an insult to the relatives of yours who you claimed died from it.

Equal rights is the direction we are headed for in future of our GLOBAL soceity (this is purely idealistic though), no matter what you, the POPE, or any person proclaims. To argue against equal rights independent of race, gender, age, or sexuality is archaic and is like telling us to return to the caves where we came from.

Feminism did not cause anarchy, it brought our society rights which were being withheld from women, for no reason, I'm not saying that paedophiles or criminals should have equal rights to that of an innocent citizen, because such issues should be treated on an individual basis.

Either way, I don't think your stupid, but I think you should tone down your arguments and at least accept or observe that most of your arguments only relate to individual cases and should not be generalized.



Comment by Kleonaptra

July 28th 2008 03:04
Will you girls please settle down? I am not SL, Im trying to have an educated discussion, not a brawl, OK? I feel like Morgan was the only one that actually read my comment properly before rage clouded vision.


We do not live in a patriarchy as a backlash against old matriarchial civilisations. We live in a patriarchy because our current world has been shaped by the patriarchial religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

As with just about everything else, it comes back to religion.

Thankyou for that Ruby - You truly are very educated. That is what I was driving at with my comment. The matriarchial civilizations ran the old pagan religions and ruled them as the creators of life, and it is the religions you have mentioned that successfully ripped off all the principles of the pagan ones and twisted them so men came out on top. You are right, it does come down to religion.

PMC
I never said men and women HAD to act a certain way. Yes, I have already fully admitted, I grew up in a place where I was expected to cook, clean and wear frilly dresses. It is MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION that I feel slightly disgusted by men who cant chop wood, cant lift heavy items or wrestle a 600kg animal. All these 'male' things I can do, thus, as I said, merely MY OWN OPINION that I think men 'should' be able to.

Dear Morgan,
banning all women from something because you presume most wont have the skills is unfair

Im not sure what you mean by that....I once drove heavy machinery in a distrubution shed - there were plenty of women working there too. The majority of stud farms I have been to have been run by women. I never said women 'cant' or women 'shouldnt' but I do think its essential to hold on to your feminity throughout.

As PMC said.....I dont have those definitions. The more 'masculine' things I accomplish the more feminine I feel, but it has recently been proven that lesbians and straight men have startlingly similar brain wave patterns, as do gay men and straight women. This confuses the right hell out of me, because I thought I was a lesbian, until I met Kman. For that reason, I like that you do not have any kind of sexual labels in your vocabulary, PMC.

I said that Id be the first to jump on the wagon and worship Akasha and all she plans for the world....What would you girls do?

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 28th 2008 03:36
hi Kleo,
i meant "employers" when i said "you", not you personally . . . as in an employer should not prevent women from applying for positions based on presumptions about physical capability . . . all jobs should be open to all women and positions offered on a case by case basis according to whether they can complete the tasks necessary
there was a time where women were not allowed to be police officers, or fire fighters, or military pilots, or work in mines
it is both a legal and cultural issue
if a woman wants to drive farm machinary (like you did), or run a stud farm, that option should be open to her . . . it often is now, as you have pointed out . . . i just think it is a right we shouldnt take for granted as it hasnt always existed
(see the movies North Country or G.I. Jane)
thanks for spicing up the discussion!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 28th 2008 03:41
hi Jake,
thanks for stopping in and contributing to the discussion!
i agree with your analogy about a world devoid of womens rights and opinions being archaic fascism . . . all any person wants is to be treated like an individual!

Comment by postmoderncritic

July 28th 2008 07:33
Hi Kleo,

I'm sorry if I came across as enraged, I wasn't... I'm usually quite mild-mannered.

You say you're slightly disgusted at men who can't chop wood, etc - why? Chopping wood is a good skill to have, but so what if he doesn't get around to learning how to do it? Do you think he is somewhat less a man in that case? I don't understand why some activities are seen as typically 'male'? I don't think that's fair to anyone, and just because sexism is still a common practice does not mean it should be accepted...

Thank you for the compliment, I remember feeling a bit weird about having a crush on my first guy because I also thought I was 'gay' at first, just don't worry about it and enjoy being yourself.

What I didn't like about the experience was that some of my friends suddenly started opening up to me more. It was a most unwelcome change of behaviour. Obviously, they're not people I hung around after high school.

Comment by RubySoho

July 28th 2008 08:39
Hi kleo. I wasn't enraged. Just frustrated.

But to be honest, I don't want to live in a world where women control men anymore than I want to live in a world were men control women.

We are different but equal. I think we should celebrate that.


Comment by D. Armenta

July 28th 2008 18:42
I have to go with Plato here; I think men and women are symbiotic. That code repeats itself so frequently in nature, it seems almost a given.

Comment by Kleonaptra

July 28th 2008 20:33
Hey Morgan,
I didnt think you meant me specifically, I just felt I needed clarity there. All the male dominated jobs Ive had have also employed plenty of women, and women do burn out faster in highly physical roles. Ive got an old fashioned mindset - Its bad enough my hands look like a mans, I feel bad for other girls with calloused palms.

PMC
I do like your lack of labels. I came out as bi rather than gay, thinking I could ease my friends into it. Most of them stopped hugging me anyway!
And yes, if a guy cant chop wood, I consider him less manly. Its just my opinion as I said, but I feel all wrong when Im doing 10ks of fencing and Kman is washing the dishes. Sometimes Id just like to bake a cake and leave the outdoor jobs you know?

Ruby,
I seriously was not agreeing with SL, I just think there are a lot of women crowing 'feminisim' when what they really want is to be BETTER than men. I totally agree with you - the differences should be celebrated.

Yes, D Armenta, I like that too!

Comment by Morgan Bell

July 29th 2008 07:12
hi D,
symbiotic . . . thats a great description!
men and women should advance together with mutual benifits, not one on the back of the other like a parasite


hi Kleo,
not every woman would burn out quicker . . . i know on average women tend to be less physical and men are less able to communicate etc but there is such diversity in each of the genders that it is impossible to generalise
also, there arent so many callouses in white collar careers!

Comment by Banana Mango

March 18th 2009 14:22
Feminism was/is a means of attaining power for those without it. As with any power, it gets misused and abused. So the cycle starts again:

"The difficulty for me is that I believe in permanent revolution. I believe that once you change the power structure and you get an oligarchy that is trying to keep itself in power, you have all the illiberal features of the previous regime. What has to keep on happening is a constant process of criticism, renewal, protest and so forth." - Germaine Greer

I hope I'm not quoting her out of context there, but yes yes yes I like that.

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 18th 2009 15:18
hi Banana Mango,
great quote!
i think Greer has a good point too, we should never rest on our laurels . . . we should constantly examine whoever holds power and wealth and influence and criticise any imbalance regardless of gender
thanks for your informative comment

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