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Deep Pencil - the musings of Morgan Bell

 
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it did it really make a sound? If i post a blog and nobody reads it was there really any point? You have entered the random thinking space of Morgan Bell . . . These are my musings . . . things about my life written off the top of my head . . . written in an informal disjointed style almost completely devoid of punctuation, this is where i flesh out writing ideas, discuss my life, and generally be self indulgent . . . it is also the bargain bin for articles which do not fit in with the film or arts themes of my other blogs . . . so have a wander around my mind, have a laugh, have a think, be nice, and humour me!

Atheism Rising

March 13th 2009 20:04
The number of "outright" Atheists in the USA has nearly doubled since 2001, from 900 thousand to 1.6 million.

An "outright" Atheist is someone who does not believe in any kind of god.

THIS 2008 survey by Kosmin and Keysar found that 1.6 percent of Americans now call themselves Atheist or Agnostic.

The percentage of Americans claiming no religion, which jumped from 8.2 in 1990 to 14.2 in 2001, has now increased to 15 percent ... that reflects an additional 4.7 million "Nones."

Northern New England has now taken over from the Pacific Northwest as the least religious section of the country, with Vermont, at 34 percent "Nones," leading all other states by a full 9 points.

Atheism


In their book "Sacred & Secular" (2004), Norris and Inglehart report a much more significant decline in the belief in god in many other countries around the world.

In Austalia there has been a 20% decline in the last 50 years.

In the Australian 2006 Census 18.7% of people who answered the question on religion were classified as "No Religion", a growth of 3.2% since the 2001 Census. A further 11.2% declined to nominate any answer to the question on religion.

Norris and Inglehart table - page 90, Sacred and Secular
CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE


Norris and Inglehart table - page 91, Sacred and Secular
CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE


Tables 4.1 and 4.2 from Norris and Inglehart "Sacred & Secular" (2004), pages 90-91

Atheists are still the minority in Australia and the USA but their numbers are undeniably rising. Within the group of people abandoning religion every year, there is a proportion who also completely reject the concept of any kind of god, spiritual or otherwise, and that number is increasing too.







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Comment by sam sall

March 13th 2009 20:47


Health and Fitness
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i think having a spiritual life is important to lead a healthy life ...

Comment by Jason King

March 13th 2009 21:43


Sydney Table
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Total Randomness

Interesting. I think I would have to go with Agnostic.

Comment by Journeywoman

March 13th 2009 23:46


Great Hair Style Tips
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Good to see that more and more people are embracing logic and reason over faith! I don't expect that religion will ever die out completely (certainly not in this century) but the more atheists we have in the world, the less of a hold the religious leaders will have on society, and that can only be a good thing.

Oh and 'spirituality', a.k.a. self delusion, has nothing to do with health. But each to their own; some prefer blissful ignorance...

Comment by Norm

March 14th 2009 00:27


Consumption Malfunction
Equal and Opposite
Arses and Elbows
Footy Power
What's the big idea?
I'm not sure trying to support your argument with facts is a good idea.
Try to stick to the truth. i.e. Whatever I say is right.
Good morning.

Comment by alt_ed

March 14th 2009 00:58


Alted Opinion
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The Inner Saintdom
I agree with Norm. Morgan, these 'facts' are rubbish... I can prove, based entirely on my own assumption, that atheism is in fact dying out!!!


Comment by RubySoho

March 14th 2009 01:44


Music Zone
Thought Zone
Well everyone knows that Atheism and Communism and Hitler are all the same thing. Hitler is dead.Communism is as good as dead. Therefore Atheism is dead.

Fuck, I'm a genius. Someone give me the Blogger of the Year award.



p.s you beat me to it.

Comment by Time to Get Up Club

March 14th 2009 17:29
I think it's sad that more people are becoming atheists. It's too bad that some people think that this world is all there is to life. I hope the statistics are wrong, as stated in some of the other comments, because otherwise more people are getting further from the truth.

Comment by alt_ed

March 15th 2009 01:35


Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
I think it's sad that people still believe there is more to life than life itself!

The point is to live for today... if you live for any other reason then you've simply wasted your time on earth.

Comment by Janet Collins

March 15th 2009 06:40


Acceptable Etiquette
The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
I have often found it strange that over the past few decades many have turned away from traditional religions and either dropped it altogether or taken up some eastern philosophy but at the same time there seems to be an exceptonal growth in Christian fundamenalist type of religions.

Unlike you Morgan, I don't have any real facts to back this up - just an observation.

Comment by the-sandwich-shak

March 15th 2009 09:38
I love talking to athiests! They can be so honest in their opinions. The biggest compliment I ever got was from an athiest because I was a real problem for them. I am totally faith-based as far as God is concerned. Logic and science just prove to me how God created the world, not whether or not He exists.

Truth never changes, regardless of numbers.

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 15th 2009 10:30


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. There is only One God. It is the same God, just worshipped differently. The way I worship God is to be a good person, do nice things for people when I can, and limit the bad things I do.

Do I believe in Heaven? No. Do I believe in Hell? No. Do I believe in Jesus? Not really. What the f..k do I believe? I believe we should be nice to others and not harm creatures if we can help it. I believe we owe so much to Nature and we are f..king Nature around something chronic.

If our time on the planet ends soon, all I can say is we deserve to die. I hope the cockroaches have a good time.

Comment by Always Eighteen

March 15th 2009 11:31


Always Eighteen
This entry just reminded me of an episode of John Safran Versus God where he goes to a Christian town (I forgot - was it a Mormon town?) and knocked on doors in a white-shirt-black-pants uniform and asked them if they wanted to convert to Atheism.

Comment by Mrs M

March 16th 2009 01:59


Mum's Word
It would be interesting to know how many people are disillusioned with the world and then see whether they fall into the category of atheist, agnostic or spiritual.

Which category of people are generally the happiest?

Is it at all possible to answer that question? There are so many categories under the spiritual banner.

Just thinking aloud.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 16th 2009 04:35


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hi Sam,
ill have to disagree with you there - it does help some people work through their troubles for sure, but i dont think it is at all essential to happiness
thanks for sharing your opinions though



hi Jason,
thats fair enough, youre the kind of person they include the "dont know" option for!
sounds like agnostics are on the rise too . . .



hi Journeywoman,
its interesting how many people choose to declare themselves Atheist in the USA because socially there is absolutely no incentive to do so
its not like parents are sending their kinds to Atheist schools, its just that kids have more freedom to reject that which they think is false
its a good thing, questioning authority, whether it is related to religion or not
i am reassured by increasing numbers of people capable of independent thought







Comment by Morgan Bell

March 16th 2009 04:50


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hi Norm,
oh those pesky facts, they always get in the way of a good story!




hi alt_ed,
heres an example

I never stopped believing in God. For me there is no question that God exists and I think that a lot of people who argue against that notion have simply been unable to comprehend what God really is

and they say Atheists are arrogant . . .




hi Ruby,
im sure you would have done the topic better than i, but i felt it needed to be reported, i would love to see more stats if you do decide to do a similar post
and yes Hitler really is the poster boy for Atheism, apart from being a Catholic and taking oaths on the bible, i think he really does represent what all Atheists want out of life . . . a cool moustache!
im surprised that the master of the logical fallacy would not be a bit more careful about making massive leaps in logic
i wonder when hes going to declare Germain Greer dead? there seems to be a weekly announcement . . . that blog is like the funeral pages of the classifieds

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 16th 2009 05:27


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hi Peter Yang,
theres nothing wrong with that!
im an Atheist too!
i had noticed around the Orble network, a few people saying Atheism is dead or dying or in decline, or the realm of soft-headed people who cant comprehend god, or other untrue and condescending tripe . . . just thought i should clear up one of the untruths




hi Time To Get Up Club,
i think the stats are correct and i dont think its sad
to the contrary, it gives me hope about the future progress of the species with more people brave enough to accept reality
i appreciate you sharing your opposing point of view
thanks for stopping by




hi Janet,
actually in the article i linked to (click on the bold word "doubled" in the first sentence), and the original study, it pretty much backs up your claim (or observation) that the evangelicals are gaining while the traditional churches like Catholicism are losing

Megachurches are booming, rising from 5 to 11.8 percent of the population

Some 2.8 million Americans now say they identify with new religious movements like Wicca, paganism or spiritualists.

those quotes are from the second page of the ABC article

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 16th 2009 05:51


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hi Sandwich Shak,
well at least youre always thinking, and socialising with people with different points of view . . . it is unlikely we would all ever arrive at the exact same answer to the unknowns of the universe even after a lifetime of contemplating




hi Carolyn,
i often say i like Pantheism . . . as a literary device
i dont really believe it here in the real world, but in a fantasy or romance novel it is a very grande concept, a lofty ideal that is pleasant to imagine
i dont think poets would survive without it . . .
that sense of karma and fate, i think it is just the human brain rationalising the irrational, making sense of the disorder by seeing a pattern that isnt there
i think it is fascinating how creative the human brain can be




hi Always Eighteen,
found it!


Comment by Morgan Bell

March 16th 2009 06:42


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hi Mrs M,
i dont have any stats on individual happiness but Orbles own Jeff Musall has written a great article called "Happy Without Religion" over on Associated Content exploring how nations who embrace and respect non-religious people perform better in most key indicators for quality of life

The extremely secular nations are safer, healthier, better educated, more charitable, and have generally higher overall standards of living.

Generally, the more religious a nation is, the lower it rates statistically on social measures such as divorce, violence and homicide, poverty, social justice. More secular nations have less disease, better education and literacy rates, better gender equality, and better treatment of minorities and those of alternative lifestyles.

it seems to me its much happier and healthier for everyone if diversity is embraced and respected, ie: a society who can accept an Atheist is going to be more tolerent towards minorities on the whole

heres a scary video about Atheist intolerance in the USA



whether an individual Atheist is happier than a Catholic or a Baptist or a Muslim of an Agnostic, im not really sure . . . but everyone is happier if people are free to believe whatever feels right for them

the whole "Atheists are evil, immoral, genocidal maniacs" vibe you get from some people of faith is really not constructive . . . nor is marginalising Atheists and pretending they dont exist or theyre just a fad

Comment by Postmodern Critic

March 16th 2009 13:49


Postmodern Critic
Relativity Watch
Padsoc
Hahaha, I hope Ahmed reads this - he told me last year that atheism was a fad!

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 16th 2009 15:24


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hi epiphanie,
haha really?
just a fad?
i think not . . .

Comment by the-sandwich-shak

March 17th 2009 02:02
Has athiesm then become it's own religion? Just a different belief (or non-belief) system?

Like, "Hi I'm an athiest, I don't believe in belief, that's my belief system!"

PS. Morgan, I talk to everyone...even those who don't talk to me...LOL.

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 17th 2009 07:49


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hi sandwich-shak,
i see quite a few theists trying to argue that Atheism is a religion, which makes me think they have a different understanding of what constitutes being religious
Atheism is a lack of belief in the supernatural, god, and the afterlife, and its not something that is organised or recruits or schools children, or prays to something or someone . . . i just dont see how it is anything like religion, i dont know where people get that from
i dont meet up with other Atheists on Sundays and read from The Origin of The Species, theres no club or group that agree to certain rules of how to live our lives
its like having a list of something and being asked to pick your favourite and checking the "none of the above" box
thanks for the discussion

Comment by the-sandwich-shak

March 17th 2009 08:33
Love a good discussion!
Umm, it's not so much the actions within the beliefs (or non-belief) but just that a person will proscribe to a certain group.

ie. In the box Religion, do you write Athiest?

Just another pigeon-hole.

Comment by RubySoho

March 17th 2009 08:41


Music Zone
Thought Zone
ie. In the box Religion, do you write Athiest?

I write 'none'.

Comment by alt_ed

March 17th 2009 14:25


Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
I think that's the whole point you sandwich short of a picnic! Atheism is NOT ORGANISED.

It's just a definition applied to people who do NOT prescribe to a belief in god, jesus, angles, fairies, leprechauns, etc.

Those who claim that atheism is in fact organised only do so as a means of devaluing the proposition that atheism is a valid perspective for one to view the world.

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 17th 2009 14:35


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hi sandwich shak
if atheist was an option i would check it, if it was a whole bunch of religions and spiritualities i would tick "none of the above"



hi Ruby,
yeah "none" woukld be the most appropriate response



hi alt_ed,
yeah i think thats the most major difference, its not organised, it is a group of people refusing to be organised into religious catergories

Comment by the-sandwich-shak

March 17th 2009 23:01
I think that's the whole point you sandwich short of a picnic!

Hi alt-ed,
Sorry if I've offended you, I was asking what I think is a valid question to me. I am not an athiest so I am trying to understand the athiest's position.

I'm trying to be respectful and would appreciate the same courtesy from you...

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 17th 2009 23:30


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
An Atheist's point of view is that they have their own point of view, not one handed to them in a book.

If you are an atheist you are free to believe you are in control of your own life, and that there is not safety clause at the end where you can say, Oh, OK I believe in you now God.

I am an Atheist.

Comment by alt_ed

March 18th 2009 09:18


Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Get fucked!

Comment by the-sandwich-shak

March 18th 2009 11:50
Carolyn,
You are also a good foodie...

Alt-ed,
Got quite a giggle out of that witty and well thought out comeback!

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 19th 2009 04:12


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
Witty, hey!

Who was it aimed at anyway? You, me, someone else entirely?

Comment by the-sandwich-shak

March 19th 2009 10:06
I had previously asked him to be a bit more courteous and less agressive when answering my questions, so I think he was pouting at me.

Comment by samaritan

March 22nd 2009 22:40


Fringe Faith
Samaritan's Stories
What I find interesting about this is not so much the fact that atheism is rising, but that it is still such a minority. A while back, people made all kinds of predictions that belief in God would have almost completely died out by now. It seems that they were wrong. I also think it's hard to check whether belief in God has actually dropped, or whether people just feel more free now to say I don't believe in God. As a Christian, I believe that belief in God will continue, despite any statistics that show atheism is rising. I think the fact that it's still such a majority (despite all previous predictions to the contrary) points to the fact that there is something very strong pulling people towards belief in a deity.

Samaritan.

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 22nd 2009 22:56


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
Is believing in Aliens sillier than believing in God? In the US, a high number of people believe in aliens, and a high number believe in God. High numbers of people claim to have had personal contact with God or aliens.

Personally, I find it easier to believe in Aliens than to believe in God. I have seen a UFO but I have never seen God. Nor have I had any unseen but contact with God, I've never felt God to be present with me. But I saw a UFO!!

It might have been anything, including an Alien vessel. I sure don't think it was God!

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 23rd 2009 14:34


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hi Samaritan,
thanks for stopping by and sharing your views
i think you raise some important points
perhaps it is now more socially acceptable to declare you dont believe in god?
for most of the christians i know here in australia, i think a big part of the appeal of the church is the sense of community, inclusion, and the duty to uphold family tradition . . . thats just my own take on it
maybe one day a really comprehensive and probing study will be done which examines the details of personal motivation with regards to faith




hi Carolyn,
UFOs hey?
talk about probing . . .

Comment by the world of gaye

March 24th 2009 00:39


batty
Family Madness
bright lights greedy city
REFLECTIONS
THE WINDMILLS OF MY MIND
Maybe it is because religion has become so corrupt. Not by the religion itself but by the people who twist it for thier own good. I imagine there is a lot of people disallusioned with it. It is sad that something that could provide comfort to people has been affected by greed, pedophiles and every other evil it preaches against. I am not really that religous but I do think it is a shame that human nature has caused so much damage.

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 24th 2009 01:04


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
I think of the poor children who have been abused by those of the cloth, and say, no thanks, I'll stick wiht my questioning atheist ways.

Comment by samaritan

March 24th 2009 01:12


Fringe Faith
Samaritan's Stories
Hi Morgan Bell,

I think there are all kinds of reasons why one might consider themselves to be a part of a religion. Certainly one reason could be for the sense of community. I know that there can often be a real sense of community and belonging in a church. However, for me, I am a Christian because I believe that Jesus is someone worth following - not for any benefits that come from that. It would be interesting to see a study as to motivation in relation to faith. I know there have been lots of studies done for why people leave the church, but don't really know of any done as to why they stay in the church.

Gaye, I completely agree. It is sad that so much of religion has become corrupt. And that raised another interesting point for me. I think there has always been an element of twisting religion for a person's own good. There have always been bad things in churches and other religions. Only now we are a lot more aware of it. In previous times, it was kind of swept under the carpet or kept from the eyes of the 'general public'. Nowadays, it's plastered all over our media. We can no longer pretend that the church is perfect. It quite obviously is not. I do think that that kind of thing pushes people away from belief in God altogether.

Samaritan

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 24th 2009 01:32


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
I'm going to post the story about the UFO sighting somewhere as soon as I decide the best place for it - maximum coverage, maximum payment. It's tough being a hardened freelance writer!

Comment by Jake 5

March 31st 2009 03:11


Drunk Rant
Morgan,
I was one of Jehovah's witnesses and because of my sin I was declared "no longer one of them". I am not sure what I am right now. But one thing that has made me question what I was taught from the bible was what I learned about how old mankind is. The Bible dates Adam to about 4000 BC. But there have been writings, Pottery, and Fossils dating before 4000 BC. Infact, somewhere around 9000-5500 BC are very accepted by many. So my question was, how can the bible be wrong? This is fundimental for christians who believe in Jesus Covering the sins of Adam. Adam has to be the first man made by God. I have been leaning to the idea that there are many writings that try to explain life before the flood (which I do believe happened).
I have read so many blogs and writings about this subject to now realize that we all are just trying to come to the best conclusions we can individually. And we will never agree. We all use some of what we believe to justify what we want and we all use some of what we believe to gain friends and we all use some of what we believe to get some sort of hope. And we all have strong reasons in which we cannot be changed or in fact change others to believe. So will God kill those of us who are trying to believe but can't justify it to ourselves?
If what I was taught is true, God will kill me for trying to find answers to my questions. This is where I have become upset with the idea of religion. Everyone feels they have the truth and so no matter what that will mean, God will kill a LOT of people who on the otherside were also thinking that they were right. Satan wins i guess. Then what about the people who don't believe in God? Can you blame them when these are the questions they face?
I have question(s) for you.... We are made in God's image, so if you were God is this how you would have dealt with the questions raised by Satan in Eden? Adam sinnned within 100 years, do we need the 5900 years of trouble to answer the question of wheather man can rule without God or wheather Satan is wrong? Are these questions also sounding crazy? Will life on earth make us better for Heaven? (if thats what you believe)
No matter what happens to all of us, If there is a God, I wish he was a better parent to me. I love my kids. I want to protect them with all my power all the time, not just when it seems right to me. And I don't try to confuse them with writings that only half or less of my kids will understand. I want them all to know how I feel. I could go on but I will leave it at that.
Drunk Rant......

Comment by Carolyn Cordon

March 31st 2009 04:18


Light Within
How do You Express Your Creativity?
Food Leaf
Wo, lots of questions, why not just become and Atheist, it all makes a lot more sense then. You don't have to believe in anything you can't see or feel, no spirits or Heaven and Hell. Easy peasy!!

Comment by Samantha Elley

March 31st 2009 04:46


Food Journo
The Sandwich Shak
Vintage Foodie
Little House among the Canefields
And then there's the other side of it where those rotten nagging questions keep coming into your mind, esp. if you've grown up being aware of the possibility of a spiritual life.

Jake, as far as timeline goes in the Bible, I wouldn't put too much creedence on literal years, or years as we know them, so Adam and Eve may have made it to prehistoric times

QUOTE]God will kill me for trying to find answers to my questions[/QUOTE]

Not by my understanding. I mean why would He give us a brain to be able to question and learn if He was gonna top us as soon as we started asking?

I could say lots more but I'll have totally hijacked Morgan's thread.

Take care,
Sam

Comment by Morgan Bell

March 31st 2009 09:28


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hi Jake,
i dont believe in god, or satan, or the afterlife, so i cant really answer as to what these figures and places would do and why
i do think Jesus was most likely a real historical figure (although greatly exaggerated in legend) but i dont think he is the son of a god
i also dont believe in anything supernatural, and i think creationism (as in teaching and believing the world is 6000 years old) is particularly absurd
you might enjoy Samaritans blog if you are looking for a theological discussion about gods mysterious ways, Samaritan is a genuinely thoughtful and considerate christian who may have the answers you are seeking



hi Samantha,
feel free to hijack my thread if you want to answer Jakes questions
i know many christians consider "years" and "days" in the bible to be arbitrary periods of time and not the literal 365 days or 24 hours that we now mark time in . . . i have a friend who thinks of them as eons or eras where a day may equal a century or a millenium etc

Comment by samaritan

March 31st 2009 10:14


Fringe Faith
Samaritan's Stories
Wow. Thanks Morgan. An endorsement from an atheist! It might ruin my Christian credentials though. Then again, I think in some quarters, they're ruined anyway. Now after you've given me that very nice compliment, I have to apologise for what is about to be a very, very long comment on your blog. Sorry!

Jake, I really feel for you, especially when you said you don't even know who you are anymore. I think one problem is we're so quick to put tags on things. Either you're an athetist or a agnostic or a Christian. And if you are a Christian, you're a fundamentalist Christian or a liberal Christian or whatever. I've had people say to me that I'm not a real Christian (once from a friend). It really, really bugs me. But I think perhaps the best thing to do (without knowing you at all) is just be you with your kind of faith and forget about what the exact label is for it.

It's hard having questions, especially when you haven't been brought up in the type of environment that welcomes those questions. But there's nothing in the bible to say that God will kill you for asking them. Job asked questions and God gave him back what was taken from him. People came up to Jesus and asked questions. He never struck them dead for asking them. If I had more time and more space here, I'd give more examples of the questions asked in the bible and what the response to them was.

One of the reasons why my friend said I wasn't a real Christian is because I don't believe in creationism. I hang around a bunch of people who believe in 6000 year old earth, literal reading of the Creation story. Creationism is a complex topic and I can't really do justice to it here. In fact, I'm going to write a blog post on it soon. But to give the very short answer, I believe that some parts in the bible are written metaphorically. They're not meant to be taken literally. Secondly, if God had spoken from the skies and told people exactly how the world started, how long ago it was and how different animals and plants had evolved, they could not have understood it at that time.

Also Jake, if you ever want to talk about these things or anything like that, feel free to send me a private message. It seems like you have a lot of questions and it's hard when you're struggling through those kind of questions by yourself.

Samaritan.


Comment by Morgan Bell

March 31st 2009 11:05


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hi Samaritan,
i think you would make a good counseller, you are very accepting of people!
please go nuts with the long comments, knock yourself out . . . if it helps someone to have faith or better understand their faith then i dont care how much space it takes up!

Comment by Jake 5

April 1st 2009 00:23


Drunk Rant
Thanks for the comments back. I will read those blogs. Interesting subject... I know that my views will be growing to something new.

Comment by Inverse

August 8th 2010 19:53
These current events are what happens when rational, educated human beings are allowed to look up into the night sky and ask "Why" without the threat of their blood being spilled by the sword of those who would tell them "Because".

Comment by Anonymous

September 2nd 2010 07:12
Alright you ignorant atheists... if there is no god, then HOW DOES THE SUN KEEP ORBITING THE EARTH? BAM!

You see people, that's how you deal with atheist skum. With LOGIC! Hit that bullseye and the rest of the dominoes will come down like a house of cards... CHECKMATE!

And on that note...

Dunt dun duuh DAAAAHHHH!

!!!!!!!!!MY ATHEIST STORE!!!!!!!!!

<a Really Long Link Muse</a>

This is my store. Maybe wearing an atheist T-shirt won't change the world, but enough of them just might.

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